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Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

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Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#231

Post by pas »

vijaybritto wrote: post #212
sorenjan wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google messaging must have some of the worst project managers in the industry. Not only did they let their lead disappear, when they decided to start competing with Facebook and WhatsApp they released Allo! A crappy MVP in a crowded market hugely dependent on the network effect. And now they've decided to involve the carriers, using a technology that's not made to be cross platform but instead be dependent on phones.…

Using a telephone number is impractical? That's our identity in the third world. I think they are focused on the developing world in this.

Because GSM is everywhere whereas IP connectivity is spotty?

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#232

Post by Teckla »

vijaybritto wrote: post #212
sorenjan wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google messaging must have some of the worst project managers in the industry. Not only did they let their lead disappear, when they decided to start competing with Facebook and WhatsApp they released Allo! A crappy MVP in a crowded market hugely dependent on the network effect. And now they've decided to involve the carriers, using a technology that's not made to be cross platform but instead be dependent on phones.…

Using a telephone number is impractical? That's our identity in the third world. I think they are focused on the developing world in this.

What if the user is on a WiFi-only tablet, or laptop, or desktop PC? What if the user is at an Internet cafe? What if the phone user has no cellular signal but has WiFi access?

Clearly it would be a mistake to limit this to just phone users.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#233

Post by niftich »

In my opinion, the strategy behind this particular change is actually a lot more clear than some of their past ones [1].

Allo didn't gain significant ground and failed to displace WhatsApp, so they can't fight Facebook on that front. Instead, they've conceded the phonenumber-as-indentity over-the-top-messenger market, and have pivoted to something more fundamental: the humble SMS app, and SMS itself.

They're baking all their Google Assistant hooks into the default Android SMS app, which will make it harder to avoid -- something Google definitely wants. This way, they don't have to fight Facebook and WeChat and Viber and Telegram on their competencies, because they've sidestepped them with the power of defaults for some amount of users, which will be a problem for the competition later on.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13465483

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#234

Post by what_ever »

vijaybritto wrote: post #212
sorenjan wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google messaging must have some of the worst project managers in the industry. Not only did they let their lead disappear, when they decided to start competing with Facebook and WhatsApp they released Allo! A crappy MVP in a crowded market hugely dependent on the network effect. And now they've decided to involve the carriers, using a technology that's not made to be cross platform but instead be dependent on phones.…

Using a telephone number is impractical? That's our identity in the third world. I think they are focused on the developing world in this.

Some of the people here are in a bubble. There are billions of people in the 3rd world countries who are now coming online and they will never have a GMail account in their life. But they will have a Facebook account and they will have Whatsapp. So many of my relatives started using internet after Jio made it so cheap and none of them use Hangouts, Allo, GMail to communicate. But everyone is on Whatsapp and everyone has a Facebook profile.

Disc: Googler, but this knowledge is my own as I grew up in India.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#235

Post by satysin »

SMS works because it is universal. RCS is just another network operator based messaging service with some new features. Who the fuck wants that?!

What I want is a chat system that does not rely on a mobile operator to "enable" it and that works like e-mail (in that I can pick any own service provider to store my messages, deliver them, etc.) and offers E2EE, etc.

It is 2018, we shouldn't be dealing with phone numbers for messaging when everyone has a much easier to remember email address. Honestly iMessage would be god damn perfect if it were open and you could use your own provider (or run your own).

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#236

Post by pas »

Piskvorrr wrote: post #125
exabrial wrote: post #87

The carriers are idiots. It's where innovation goes to die. We had to pull them kicking and screaming into the smart phone and data era. (Remember When AT&T sent a paper copy of every image you downloaded on your iPhone in a bill?) Quite frankly the core problem with Google's strategy is involving then at all. Instead, go the manufacturers and campaign against supporting sms at all . It's insecure, slow, unreliable,…

This is caricature, but based in reality: https://xkcd.com/1810/ - SMS, like email, is ubiquitous. Unlike email, it doesn't even require a data connection, just a cellphone signal. (Yes, this is a thing, even in supposedly civilized countries) Unlike email, it doesn't even require a feature phone - even the dumbest of the featurephones can read SMS, from the venerable Nokia 3210 up (yes, even e-mail can be too comple…

The point is not to kill SMS, just to make the default an IP-based protocol, that's not tied to the carrier/operator.

Currently people are dependent on phone numbers for too many things. (Too many "2FA" uses SMS.)

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#237

Post by what_ever »

Teckla wrote: post #232
vijaybritto wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using a telephone number is impractical? That's our identity in the third world. I think they are focused on the developing world in this.

What if the user is on a WiFi-only tablet, or laptop, or desktop PC? What if the user is at an Internet cafe? What if the phone user has no cellular signal but has WiFi access? Clearly it would be a mistake to limit this to just phone users.

I think you really need to check how people use Internet in India, Indonesia and other Asian/African countries. I doubt anyone uses laptop or desktop PC unless it's needed for work. And Internet cafe is a thing of the past.

Having wifi but no cellular signal is such a rare usecase.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#238

Post by 5GallonBucket »

moksha256 wrote: post #134

Didn't Google have messaging figured out with Google Talk? Everyone was on Gmail all day (as many still are) and people actually used it. Then they let it wither, came out with Hangouts, and it's been a downhill train wreck from there. Google Talk had the potential of being one of the biggest messengers in the world...they own Gmail and Android (!!!!!). Are you kidding me? There's really no good reason for them NOT t…

>downhill train wreck

The downhill train wreck is not isolated to their messaging services. Google, as a whole, is a fragmented mess that has manifested with Android OS. Not only is Android OS crippled by Google's ADD-fueled incompetence, it's crippled by their inability to remove carrier-influence from their devices. Now, Google wants to double down on their boneheaded decision by doing the same with messaging. Google Messaging needs to be carrier independant, have SMS fallback, integrate with all Google services, and be bundled with Google Services on Android. I have lost /ALL/ faith in Google.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#239

Post by orbitur »

delecti wrote: post #205
donbox wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could not they just replace the XMPP protocol with whatever better protocol, while keeping the GTalk alive.

They kinda did exactly that. GTalk became Hangouts which is no longer quite XMPP.

Well, not only did they change the protocol, they ruined the UI too.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#240

Post by pas »

heymijo wrote: post #155
bitL wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what you get when you apply reinforcement learning company-wide and set rewards +500k +promotion for completely new, "revolutionary" products ;-)

"and set rewards +500k +promotion for completely new, "revolutionary" products ;-)" Do you have a source for this? Not disputing you, but would like to reference.

https://mtlynch.io/why-i-quit-google/
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