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Finland tax authorities matching Bitcoin transactions and bank transfers

metropolitan.fi

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Re: Finland tax authorities matching Bitcoin transactions and bank transfers

#111

Post by zokier »

brlewis wrote: post #87
trinitry3 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why should any government incentivize that? Well maybe they shouldn't, but it's shitty to apply this kind of policy retroactively. (I don't know when they actually announced the fact that you can't deduct losses.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_post_facto_law#Finland "Generally, the Finnish legal system does not permit ex post facto laws"

Strictly speaking I don't think this thing is a law, but rather a policy. Also the same paragraph continues

> In civil matters, such as taxation, ex post facto laws may be made in some circumstances.

Re: Finland tax authorities matching Bitcoin transactions and bank transfers

#112

Post by StavrosK »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #109
StavrosK wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, for sure. But there can be a secondary market if people accept Monero directly, so you don't have to convert.

It always surprises me how casually crypto currency enthusiasts treat wilful money laundering and tax fraud.

The scenario you had in mind was money laundering and tax fraud? Mine was an oppressive government trying to dictate where you spend your money.

Re: Finland tax authorities matching Bitcoin transactions and bank transfers

#113

Post by xmodem »

21 wrote: post #82
xmodem wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

5 seconds of googling reveals that this is bullshit. I didn't even need to resort to google translate: https://almanakka.helsinki.fi/en/name-days/finnish-names-act...

Did you even bother reading what you linked? > A name which is in form or spelling contrary to Finnish naming practices is also not permitted.

That's a far cry from the "100 approved names" you claimed, and not uncommon in Europe.

Re: Finland tax authorities matching Bitcoin transactions and bank transfers

#114

Post by hedgew »

pjc50 wrote: post #54
hedgew wrote: post #7

All they're doing is looking for bank transactions to crypto exchanges in citizens' accounts. What this article doesn't tell, is that the current cryptocurrency taxation in Finland is unreasonable. You pay 30-34% tax on any profit, but you can not deduct losses. If you had bought 1 BTC at $1000, another at $14000, and sold both at $3000 you would owe $600 in taxes even though you lost $9000. You can imagine how peopl…

I'm skeptical of this, and went looking for primary sources. The Finnish tax authority website seems to have a different example: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fi&tl=en&js=y&prev... (from https://www.vero.fi/syventavat-vero-ohjeet/ohje-hakusivu/484... ) "Example 1: One person has in the past bought 1,000 bitcoins for 500 euros, ie one Bitcoin cost EUR 0.5. He later bought more 500 bitcoins for 500 euros,…

Here's the key sentence which roughly translates into "Losses are not deductible" > "Sopimussuhteeseen liittyvät menetykset eivät ole tuloverolain mukaisessa verotuksessa vähennyskelpoisia."

Additionally, Example 3 is given to show how an actual loss of 500€ is not considered a loss in taxation and is not deductible.

The Finnish tax authorities use a First In First Out principle in crypto taxation. So if you buy 1 BTC for 10€, and later 1 BTC for 1000€, and later sell the 2 BTC for 20€, you have to pay taxes on the 10€ "profit". Even though you lost 990€ on the second BTC.

Re: Finland tax authorities matching Bitcoin transactions and bank transfers

#115

Post by cookingrobot »

Godel_unicode wrote: post #110
pfortuny wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, yes but the parent is complaining about taxes on a net financial loss . This is really unjust and something difficult to support.

It sounds like it's being taxed like gambling rather than investing. You don't get to write off a massive loss at the casino, and if you have a net loss you still owe on the nights you came out ahead.

In the US gambling losses are deductible, to the limit of your winnings, according to this. https://www.google.com/amp/s/turbotax.intuit.com/tax-tips/jo...

Re: Finland tax authorities matching Bitcoin transactions and bank transfers

#116

Post by s73v3r_ »

whataretensors wrote: post #101
bitreality wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crypto is a legitimate investment. It's an entirely new asset class. If you think it's going away anytime soon you're delusional. 5 years ago you could buy 1 BTC for $100 USD. And at that point it wasn't even new. 1 year ago you could buy 1 ETH for about $50. The average person would struggle very hard to find any investment that goes 80X in 5 years, or 12X in one year. With Bitcoin and crypto, lots of regular people…

I agree with you entirely. You won't find enough allies here for some reason. The technical ability exists but there's also a refusal to look and think for themselves. We are looking at the tools that can completely redefine our society. Meanwhile a significant amount of engineers here are selling all their time for 0% royalties and investing in "2045 retirement funds". It's no wonder there's hostility to a system th…

Disagreeing with you does not mean that people can't "think for themselves". To insinuate so is extremely uncivil.

"Meanwhile a significant amount of engineers here are selling all their time for 0% royalties and investing in "2045 retirement funds"."

And crypto would do absolutely nothing to change that.

Re: Finland tax authorities matching Bitcoin transactions and bank transfers

#117

Post by marvin »

mcintyre1994 wrote: post #83
yorwba wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you provide the billionaire with food stamps, but tax them at 10% of their net worth (which would reduce them to a mere millionaire in ≈65 years), I'm not sure whether anyone would complain about the food stamps.

Wouldn't the billionaire just leave and move somewhere that doesn't reduce their total worth every year?

This happens even in Norway, where the wealth tax is 0.85% of net worth per year. So you'd have to have some wealth tax everywhere the well-off would want to move.

Re: Finland tax authorities matching Bitcoin transactions and bank transfers

#118

Post by s73v3r_ »

StavrosK wrote: post #8
klez wrote: post #3

"The taxman"? The original title was "Tax authorities in Finland matching Bitcoin transactions & bank transfers to collect tax on crypto trading profits".

Yes, but "the taxman" makes you click so you can see if it's your taxman.

Or if you're a Beatles fan.

Re: Finland tax authorities matching Bitcoin transactions and bank transfers

#119

Post by gamblor956 »

mcny wrote: post #34
hedgew wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't sound right. The authorities in Finland specifically tax gains made with cryptocurrencies. You only pay tax if you make profit on any individual trade. But you can not deduct trades that made a loss. It's not exactly a wealth tax, but it's also hard to consider a capital gains tax because you can't deduct losses. Treating other investment products this way would probably have horrific results, because it…

This does sound strange. My understanding is that here in the US if you win a huge jackpot at a casino but then spend it all on slots (I don't know how or why anyone would do that but this is a thought experiment) over the year, you effectively don't owe any income tax on that jackpot.

If you win a huge jackpot, the casino withholds taxes on your winnings. However, you may be able to deduct gambling losses from your gambling winnings up to the amount of gambling winnings for that year, assuming you itemize your deductions.

Re: Finland tax authorities matching Bitcoin transactions and bank transfers

#120

Post by whataretensors »

s73v3r_ wrote: post #116
whataretensors wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you entirely. You won't find enough allies here for some reason. The technical ability exists but there's also a refusal to look and think for themselves. We are looking at the tools that can completely redefine our society. Meanwhile a significant amount of engineers here are selling all their time for 0% royalties and investing in "2045 retirement funds". It's no wonder there's hostility to a system th…

Disagreeing with you does not mean that people can't "think for themselves". To insinuate so is extremely uncivil. "Meanwhile a significant amount of engineers here are selling all their time for 0% royalties and investing in "2045 retirement funds"." And crypto would do absolutely nothing to change that.

You are twisting my words. I'm saying there's a significant amount of intelligent people who can think for themselves in other situations that refuse to seriously look at cryptocurrency and have a knee-jerk reaction instead.
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