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Microsoft Signs Letter Of Intent To Acquire Xobni

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Re: Microsoft Signs Letter Of Intent To Acquire Xobni

#31

Post by wright »

steveblgh wrote: post #16
pg wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? Building an OS that works is a solved problem, and they don't seem to be able to do that. The reason big companies buy startups is because they can't do what they "could" do.

Come on, building a working OS is a gigantic effort. Last time I checked Xobni was regex-ing phone numbers and names from e-mail texts, plus some fancy GUI of the kind that you said in one essay that you hate (messing around with obscure Windows APIs). Following your reasoning, the Xobni guys could have more easily built a full OS, which, with all respect, I seriously doubt.

My next YC idea: A plugin for Vista that makes it work.

Re: Microsoft Signs Letter Of Intent To Acquire Xobni

#32

Post by alaskamiller »

steveblgh wrote: post #15
mattmaroon wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot more to replicating something like Xobni in a megacorporation like MSFT than just the programming. In a lot of cases it's easier to get an acquisition signed off on than a new department to make a new product. And they get more than just code, and people who write code. They get a little street cred back in the hacker community for picking up a YC startup. They get people who have vision, which MSFT app…

I think you nailed it with the line: "they get a little street cred back in the hacker community for picking up a YC startup". Exactly what I was thinking. If it's not the features, not the engineers, it must be the positive buzz they get for it. Probably this is some lame attempt by Microsoft to appear cool and show that they understand the new wave.

Because Bill Gates stays up all night worrying about what steveblgh on Hacker News thinks.

Re: Microsoft Signs Letter Of Intent To Acquire Xobni

#33

Post by wright »

alaskamiller wrote: post #29
wright wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know a lot of really smart people who can't program worth a darn. If you want to work at MS you're already lacking in the taste department. And what's the interview process, brainteasers or BSing your way through random estimates like the number of gas stations in the country? Being good at bluster can make someone seem pretty smart. But the computer doesn't care about that. It filters out what you can really do fr…

I also know a lot of dumb people that can't program worth a damn. What's your point? Wanting to work a corporation that has big revenues with job security, stability, steady paychecks, interesting projects (yes, there are still interesting projects everything from online, web, to Xbox), big campus treatment, vacation, healthcare benefits, and et al. Yeah, that's just an outright dumb move.

> I also a lot of dumb people that can't program worth a damn. What's your point?

Try to keep up here, Freddo. Try following the context :) Smart is orthogonal to skilled at a particular endeavor.

> Yeah, that's just an outright dumb move.

Funny how you twisted "lacking in the taste department" into "dumb". It's a computer industry truism that MS lacks taste, whereas Apple has good taste.

This is also amusing: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2007/10/05.html

Re: Microsoft Signs Letter Of Intent To Acquire Xobni

#35

Post by wanorris »

wright wrote: post #26
wanorris wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps the programmers I've met from Microsoft are atypical, but they've been smart as hell. Whatever Microsoft's problems are (and clearly they have some), it isn't that they don't have any smart people on campus there.

I know a lot of really smart people who can't program worth a darn. If you want to work at MS you're already lacking in the taste department. And what's the interview process, brainteasers or BSing your way through random estimates like the number of gas stations in the country? Being good at bluster can make someone seem pretty smart. But the computer doesn't care about that. It filters out what you can really do fr…

> I know a lot of really smart people who can't program worth a darn.

Like I said, they may not be typical, but most of the Microsoft people I've met work on compiler design, static verifiers, and things like that. If where you come from that's considered trivial stuff, feel free to make your own judgements accordingly.

> If you want to work at MS you're already lacking in the taste department.

Really? Last I checked, there are openings on the F# team. Would it really be that horrible to get big-company pay and benefits to have the opportunity to hack on compilers for functional languages?

> And what's the interview process, brainteasers or BSing your way through random estimates like the number of gas stations in the country?

Done away with, last I heard.

Re: Microsoft Signs Letter Of Intent To Acquire Xobni

#36

Post by wanorris »

wright wrote: post #33
alaskamiller wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also know a lot of dumb people that can't program worth a damn. What's your point? Wanting to work a corporation that has big revenues with job security, stability, steady paychecks, interesting projects (yes, there are still interesting projects everything from online, web, to Xbox), big campus treatment, vacation, healthcare benefits, and et al. Yeah, that's just an outright dumb move.

> I also a lot of dumb people that can't program worth a damn. What's your point? Try to keep up here, Freddo. Try following the context :) Smart is orthogonal to skilled at a particular endeavor. > Yeah, that's just an outright dumb move. Funny how you twisted "lacking in the taste department" into "dumb". It's a computer industry truism that MS lacks taste, whereas Apple has good taste. This is also amusing: http:/…

Taste is also orthogonal to skill at programming. Apple had better taste then Microsoft even when their code was absolute crap under the hood.

Re: Microsoft Signs Letter Of Intent To Acquire Xobni

#37

Post by pg »

steveblgh wrote: post #16
pg wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? Building an OS that works is a solved problem, and they don't seem to be able to do that. The reason big companies buy startups is because they can't do what they "could" do.

Come on, building a working OS is a gigantic effort. Last time I checked Xobni was regex-ing phone numbers and names from e-mail texts, plus some fancy GUI of the kind that you said in one essay that you hate (messing around with obscure Windows APIs). Following your reasoning, the Xobni guys could have more easily built a full OS, which, with all respect, I seriously doubt.

Following your reasoning

You're not; you're supplying new reasoning for me. My point was that big companies can screw up even apparently straightforward projects, so screwing up novel ones would be even more likely.

Re: Microsoft Signs Letter Of Intent To Acquire Xobni

#38

Post by wright »

wanorris wrote: post #36
wright wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I also a lot of dumb people that can't program worth a damn. What's your point? Try to keep up here, Freddo. Try following the context :) Smart is orthogonal to skilled at a particular endeavor. > Yeah, that's just an outright dumb move. Funny how you twisted "lacking in the taste department" into "dumb". It's a computer industry truism that MS lacks taste, whereas Apple has good taste. This is also amusing: http:/…

Taste is also orthogonal to skill at programming. Apple had better taste then Microsoft even when their code was absolute crap under the hood.

You can have taste without being able to program well, but you can't program well without good taste.

The original point was that MS had smart people so a lack of smarts couldn't be the problem. The salient points are 1) smarts don't guarantee programming skill, and 2) smarts don't guarantee taste.

Re: Microsoft Signs Letter Of Intent To Acquire Xobni

#39

Post by wright »

wanorris wrote: post #35
wright wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know a lot of really smart people who can't program worth a darn. If you want to work at MS you're already lacking in the taste department. And what's the interview process, brainteasers or BSing your way through random estimates like the number of gas stations in the country? Being good at bluster can make someone seem pretty smart. But the computer doesn't care about that. It filters out what you can really do fr…

> I know a lot of really smart people who can't program worth a darn. Like I said, they may not be typical, but most of the Microsoft people I've met work on compiler design, static verifiers, and things like that. If where you come from that's considered trivial stuff, feel free to make your own judgements accordingly. > If you want to work at MS you're already lacking in the taste department. Really? Last I checked…

> I've met work on compiler design, static verifiers, and things like that

Not on the heavy consumer apps, eh?

> Last I checked, there are openings on the F# team.

So you're saying they have positions open that need people with taste to work on them. In other words, they have a shortage of people with taste ;)

> Done away with, last I heard.

What's the process now?

Re: Microsoft Signs Letter Of Intent To Acquire Xobni

#40

Post by wright »

pg wrote: post #37
steveblgh wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come on, building a working OS is a gigantic effort. Last time I checked Xobni was regex-ing phone numbers and names from e-mail texts, plus some fancy GUI of the kind that you said in one essay that you hate (messing around with obscure Windows APIs). Following your reasoning, the Xobni guys could have more easily built a full OS, which, with all respect, I seriously doubt.

Following your reasoning You're not; you're supplying new reasoning for me. My point was that big companies can screw up even apparently straightforward projects, so screwing up novel ones would be even more likely.

PG, I would have downmodded him for you but some mean people took all my points :(
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