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Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

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Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#41

Post by eloisant »

bhaavan wrote: post #20
bb88 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Years ago 1998ish(?), there was a fight to open up chat applications AIM, ICQ, YIM, etc. We had to have 20 apps to chat with each other. Fast forward 20 years, and here we are again, FB Messenger, Kik, WhatsApp, Allo, Signal, Telegram, SMS, Slack, etc. At least this appears to be a "standard" that everyone can use again.

https://xkcd.com/927/ Relevant xkcd.

I'm a bit tired of people pulling out this comic each time a new standard appears.

Whatsapp, Telegram, FB, iMessages are NOT standards. They're closed systems controlled by a single company.

XMPP is a standard from the days of ICQ, AIM, MSN, etc. Unfortunately it failed.

SMS is a standard for mobile phone text communications. It's too limited now.

RCS is the evolution of SMS.

I don't think RCS is a redundant standard, it's a necessary evolution of SMS. It's a standard for a decentralized system. I know Americans hate their carriers to the point they'd rather have everyone's data in a single SV company, but the solution is to fix your carriers. Not to give all your data to a company (Facebook) that had been proved to be less than trustable about it.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#42

Post by icebraining »

sdrothrock wrote: post #15
Corrado wrote: post #2

I think RCS is a great idea and Google should be pushing it. In fact, I would argue that few other companies could make it happen in a way that Google can. RCS opens up a much larger world than a simple "chat" client does.

> RCS opens up a much larger world than a simple "chat" client does. How so? It's carrier-specific and thus limited to phones on carriers that support it. What about international messaging, etc.? One of the huge benefits of Hangouts is that I can chat with anyone anywhere, phone or computer, America or Japan.

I can send SMSs internationally, why not RCS? And you can send & receive SMSs on a computer.

The real problem, in my opinion, is cost; Hangouts is free, SMSs aren't. And it seems RCS is designed to be billed per-unit, following the model of the latter.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#43

Post by eicnix »

toomanybeersies wrote: post #38
eigenvector wrote: post #29

RCS is an improvement to SMS but it does not address the core limitations: it is owned and controlled by carriers, so your ability to contact someone is entirely dependent on that user's carrier. It is tied to a single, physical device. WhatsApp shot to popularity because it was the opposite of SMS: an entirely over-the-top service that everyone could use, on any platform, without the consent, extra billing or buggy…

Whatsapp relies on a phone number for account activation though, doesn't it? And if you lose that phone number and phone, you need to get a new whatsapp number. I have to keep my SIM from New Zealand with me so that when I get a new phone I can activate Whatsapp again.

You can migrate your Whatsapp account between different phone numbers. I've done this with SIMs from different countries.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#44

Post by hueving »

polskibus wrote: post #16

Long time ago, Google chat supported XMPP. Later on that support has been cut off. How do they expect people to trust this statement: "We don’t believe in taking the approach that Apple does. We are fundamentally an open ecosystem. We believe in working with partners. We believe in working with our OEMs to be able to deliver a great experience,” ?

>We don’t believe in taking the approach that Apple does.

I bet the person who wrote that is naive enough to believe it due to lack of historical knowledge. Probably 95% of the current Google employees were hired after XMPP support was dead.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#45

Post by bb88 »

underwater wrote: post #19
bb88 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Years ago 1998ish(?), there was a fight to open up chat applications AIM, ICQ, YIM, etc. We had to have 20 apps to chat with each other. Fast forward 20 years, and here we are again, FB Messenger, Kik, WhatsApp, Allo, Signal, Telegram, SMS, Slack, etc. At least this appears to be a "standard" that everyone can use again.

Why would any of those products get onboard, unless they’re already failing?

They wouldn't. And so I have to have 20 apps to chat with all my friends. And that makes me a sad panda.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#46

Post by eigenvector »

toomanybeersies wrote: post #38
eigenvector wrote: post #29

RCS is an improvement to SMS but it does not address the core limitations: it is owned and controlled by carriers, so your ability to contact someone is entirely dependent on that user's carrier. It is tied to a single, physical device. WhatsApp shot to popularity because it was the opposite of SMS: an entirely over-the-top service that everyone could use, on any platform, without the consent, extra billing or buggy…

Whatsapp relies on a phone number for account activation though, doesn't it? And if you lose that phone number and phone, you need to get a new whatsapp number. I have to keep my SIM from New Zealand with me so that when I get a new phone I can activate Whatsapp again.

WhatsApp uses your phone number as your "ID" but your message history and contacts can be migrated to a new device or number. So there is a concept of an account beyond just your current phone number but it's not exposed to the user directly.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#47

Post by hueving »

bb88 wrote: post #31
polskibus wrote: post #16

Long time ago, Google chat supported XMPP. Later on that support has been cut off. How do they expect people to trust this statement: "We don’t believe in taking the approach that Apple does. We are fundamentally an open ecosystem. We believe in working with partners. We believe in working with our OEMs to be able to deliver a great experience,” ?

Because people want party parrots. And there isn't a standard to send party parrots through XMPP. /s Okay, a little snarky, but it makes a point. Chat programs have a lot of proprietary features that won't translate through XMPP.

XMPP had extensions just for that crap. The trick was getting clients that all supported them.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#48

Post by bb88 »

eloisant wrote: post #41
bhaavan wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://xkcd.com/927/ Relevant xkcd.

I'm a bit tired of people pulling out this comic each time a new standard appears. Whatsapp, Telegram, FB, iMessages are NOT standards. They're closed systems controlled by a single company. XMPP is a standard from the days of ICQ, AIM, MSN, etc. Unfortunately it failed. SMS is a standard for mobile phone text communications. It's too limited now. RCS is the evolution of SMS. I don't think RCS is a redundant standard…

> Whatsapp, Telegram, FB, iMessages are NOT standards. They're closed systems controlled by a single company.

That's what the term "Defacto Standard" is for.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#49

Post by bb88 »

hueving wrote: post #47
bb88 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because people want party parrots. And there isn't a standard to send party parrots through XMPP. /s Okay, a little snarky, but it makes a point. Chat programs have a lot of proprietary features that won't translate through XMPP.

XMPP had extensions just for that crap. The trick was getting clients that all supported them.

That's exactly my point. Thank you for making it for me.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#50

Post by tallanvor »

bb88 wrote: post #12
tallanvor wrote: post #6

Can anyone explain why I should be interested in RCS, though? It seems like it's more designed to let carriers try and stem the flow of customers switching to other options, and I don't really see what benefits it offers me.

Years ago 1998ish(?), there was a fight to open up chat applications AIM, ICQ, YIM, etc. We had to have 20 apps to chat with each other. Fast forward 20 years, and here we are again, FB Messenger, Kik, WhatsApp, Allo, Signal, Telegram, SMS, Slack, etc. At least this appears to be a "standard" that everyone can use again.

But it doesn't really seem to be a standard that everyone can use. Like others have pointed out, FB and Google both originally built their products on XMPP, and only later decided to lock out competing options.

With SMS I know that I can send a text to anyone. With RCS, I don't know what would be supported by each carrier.

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