‘I Fundamentally Believe That My Time at Reddit Made the World a Worse Place’ • Hacker News Board

Re: ‘I Fundamentally Believe That My Time at Reddit Made the World a Worse Place’

#521

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Apr 20, 2018, 1:04 AM UTC

notMick wrote: post #145

rockostrich wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The default/popular subreddits are toxic. The smaller, niche subreddits are rarely toxic and usually good communities. As for the Russiagate stuff, the front page is riddled with it because it's a very important subject in the US, Reddit's user base is primarily people from the US, and there are bombshells dropping every day.

Still a nothing burger, it's paid political propaganda on those default reddits, paid teams pushing bs and noise. Share blue for example was given a budget of 40+ million a year to do just that. (Over 100k a day) The other paid campaign is 'deplatforming' (their term). They do your best to silence opinions which don't match the paid script.

[deleted]

Re: ‘I Fundamentally Believe That My Time at Reddit Made the World a Worse Place’

#522

Post by skybrian » Fri, Apr 20, 2018, 1:12 AM UTC

Karrot_Kream wrote: post #515

skybrian wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the problem with Reddit doesn't seem to be that subreddits don't have enough independence and ability to make their own choices?

Federation makes a lot of moderation decisions easier. If an instance chooses to stop federating with another instance, it's not like the entire other instance disappears and those users now do not have a place to discuss their ideas, all that happens is that their ideas cannot spread into the Federated network they were cut off from. Likewise if an individual is banned from one Fediverse, then they can join one more…

That's a good point. But this sounds a lot like user blocking tools?

At one time, making sure that users could block other users on the same social network might have seemed like it might enough to prevent abuse and keep social networks out of the moderation business. Users that don't get along can just block each other. Good enough?

Maybe not. You say you know the "worst case" but that might not be imaginative enough? There are apparently people nastier than that, and they're creative, and they gang up.

I suspect that if federation really got going, there would be plenty of abuse. Not sure what form it would take. Chain mail? Phishing? Something new? Who is going to be in a position to fix it? How much drama will this cause?

Re: ‘I Fundamentally Believe That My Time at Reddit Made the World a Worse Place’

#523

Post by rjbwork » Fri, Apr 20, 2018, 1:16 AM UTC

aplummer wrote: post #477

pathseeker wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The thing is, you don’t really need to theorise about how to stop school shootings. It’s been done. It's still theorizing because there are no comparable countries to the US that have done it when it comes to the number of guns already out there (300+ million) and the importance of the 2nd amendment to many of the citizens. >It just required people to prioritise children’s lives over a minority hobby. If you see it…

1st point: It’s been done for hundreds of millions of people and hundreds of millions of guns, and it’s regulation not removing all guns, which is already done in the US, you can’t get a rocket launcher, so why am assault rifle? No banned guns, just licenses, gun safes, regulation on types, reasonable ownership limits (all farmers I know in Aus have 5+ guns) - that’s all it takes to stop mass shootings. If it’s a hob…

Seems like you can, in fact, buy a rocket launcher. A quick google search showed that there are a number of sites on which to obtain one.

http://www.businessinsider.com/how-to-get-rocket-launcher-gu...

Re: ‘I Fundamentally Believe That My Time at Reddit Made the World a Worse Place’

#524

Post by naasking » Fri, Apr 20, 2018, 1:33 AM UTC

PopsiclePete wrote: post #494

PurpleBoxDragon wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More than agreeing or not with this line of thinking, I find the bigger problem is how selectively it is applied. People will point out that if we ban guns, we wouldn't have to worry about school shootings. Even if we ignored the logistics of such a challenge and agreed on the conclusion, why is the same logic not applied to things like alcohol and all the harms that results (drunk driving, alcoholics ruining their l…

A gun if fundamentally designed to kill. That's the only reason it exists. Yes you can use it to eat cereal, I guess, or you can dip the nozzle in paint and create wonderful art, or maybe you can load an AR-15 with 30 rounds and shoot at a giant wall of cheese to make hipster Swiss cheese, but most people realize why guns exist - to end life. Human life, or animal life, but some form of life. I hear various arguments…

> A gun if fundamentally designed to kill. That's the only reason it exists.

That's the reason it was invented, that's not the only reason it still exists. According to stats cited above, 1 in 3 Americans have a gun. Why aren't two thirds of you dead if guns only exist to kill?

The truth is, people have fun shooting guns. Just like they have fun in archery contests, despite the fact that bows and arrows were also invented only to kill.

Re: ‘I Fundamentally Believe That My Time at Reddit Made the World a Worse Place’

#525

Post by TomMckenny » Fri, Apr 20, 2018, 1:39 AM UTC

naasking wrote: post #467

TomMckenny wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>...blames gun manufacturers for school shootings... If a new item today entered the market and was misused to the tune of 30,000 deaths per year. Misused far more often than legitimately like stopping an intruder. And the manufacturer knew in advance this would be the outcome, I think we would be right to blame them. There are many extremely dangerous substances with legitimate uses that would instantly be widely ab…

> Misused far more often than legitimately like stopping an intruder. And the manufacturer knew in advance this would be the outcome, Yeah, I'm not convinced. If enough people enjoyed using the item in question recreationally, there'd be enough pushback to an outright ban. > I think we would be right to blame them. This doesn't follow from the premises. I'd wager that every item has an ethical use. > There are many e…

>Yeah, I'm not convinced. If enough people enjoyed using the item in question recreationally, there'd be enough pushback to an outright ban.

No doubt. Especially if a large industry emerged to service that recreation.

>This doesn't follow from the premises. I'd wager that every item has an ethical use.

Normally a manufacturer does not get away with a product that he knows will cause 30k deaths per year just by saying that behavior, which is the most common behavior, constitutes misuse. But the ethics of that behavior apparently varies from person to person.

> "Restrict" does not entail "forbid". There are already "gun restrictions", just as there are "chemical restrictions" and so on with all the other items you're no doubt thinking of.

Bulk caffeine is massively more restricted then AK47s

Re: ‘I Fundamentally Believe That My Time at Reddit Made the World a Worse Place’

#526

Post by naasking » Fri, Apr 20, 2018, 1:49 AM UTC

DavidVoid wrote: post #486

naasking wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd argue that the psychopaths who're attracted to such forums have their hateful beliefs reinforced and amplified by them I agree. I think the echo chamber effect is well documented at this point, and it's something that's happening even in mainstream media. I would still hesitate to say that we should lay the blame on these forums though, or undeniably conclude that that's where we should be making changes to pre…

>I would still hesitate to say that we should lay the blame on these forums though, or undeniably conclude that that's where we should be making changes to prevent such problems. I wouldn't say lay the blame on the forums for the actions for their members, however I do think it would be somewhat justified to lay the blame on forums for knowingly allowing these hateful ideologies to spread to more and more people due…

> It's been shown that banning hateful subreddits reduces the amount of hate speech on the site by users who used to post on those banned subreddits.

But as you say, it doesn't necessarily reduce hate or hate speech overall. In fact, it may even galvanize it further. How do you think the US got all of those conservative news networks like Fox? Because rich conservatives got tired of their opinions being ignored or silenced (from their perspective).

Great quote by Popper, but the problem is that there is great intolerance on both sides of the spectrum, left and right. The extreme left on reddit is not being silenced the way the extreme right is. Both sides are intolerant of facts and rational argument that doesn't adhere to their dogma, so why is only one being pushed out?

I read some studies awhile back that suggested that centrism appears to be no more or less persuasive to most people than extremist positions. People will latch on to specific things that resonate, and just adopt the rest thinking that said resonance means they belong in this group, which ultimately leads to polarization around a small number of extreme positions that are irreconcilable. Takeaway facts: a) that seems to explain the US's politics over the past few decades, b) bipartisan-type compromise may not be a stable condition, and c) centrism is itself a position that needs its own advocates.

Re: ‘I Fundamentally Believe That My Time at Reddit Made the World a Worse Place’

#527

Post by naasking » Fri, Apr 20, 2018, 1:53 AM UTC

TomMckenny wrote: post #525

naasking wrote: post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Misused far more often than legitimately like stopping an intruder. And the manufacturer knew in advance this would be the outcome, Yeah, I'm not convinced. If enough people enjoyed using the item in question recreationally, there'd be enough pushback to an outright ban. > I think we would be right to blame them. This doesn't follow from the premises. I'd wager that every item has an ethical use. > There are many e…

>Yeah, I'm not convinced. If enough people enjoyed using the item in question recreationally, there'd be enough pushback to an outright ban. No doubt. Especially if a large industry emerged to service that recreation. >This doesn't follow from the premises. I'd wager that every item has an ethical use. Normally a manufacturer does not get away with a product that he knows will cause 30k deaths per year just by saying…

> Normally a manufacturer does not get away with a product that he knows will cause 30k deaths per year just by saying that behavior, which is the most common behavior, constitutes misuse.

Is it the most common behaviour for guns though? Because something like 1 in 3 households in America has a gun, but 1 in 3 households does not house a murderer.

> Bulk caffeine is massively more restricted then AK47s

Just for the record, I never said existing gun restrictions were sufficient, just that they do exist!

Re: ‘I Fundamentally Believe That My Time at Reddit Made the World a Worse Place’

#528

Post by md224 » Fri, Apr 20, 2018, 1:57 AM UTC

crazygringo wrote: post #513

md224 wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have the mobile app, you can see for yourself. Here's an example: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskOuija/comments/89rukm/hey_vsauce... If you're not by a desktop, you can verify the missing comments by viewing the link in mobile Safari (in an ironic twist, Reddit's mobile web view is actually more functional than their native app). I wonder how many people are out there, like you, who have no idea this is going on.…

I don't know what to tell you, but I see the full thread on my iOS reddit app: https://photos.app.goo.gl/tqoooN7gJ7zNKZLB3 Maybe it's an Android thing?

There are more replies to the first thread that you’re not seeing. Note the “Continue Thread” links in the web view:

https://ibb.co/nPtibn

Re: ‘I Fundamentally Believe That My Time at Reddit Made the World a Worse Place’

#529

Post by splintercell » Fri, Apr 20, 2018, 2:06 AM UTC

PopsiclePete wrote: post #494

PurpleBoxDragon wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More than agreeing or not with this line of thinking, I find the bigger problem is how selectively it is applied. People will point out that if we ban guns, we wouldn't have to worry about school shootings. Even if we ignored the logistics of such a challenge and agreed on the conclusion, why is the same logic not applied to things like alcohol and all the harms that results (drunk driving, alcoholics ruining their l…

A gun if fundamentally designed to kill. That's the only reason it exists. Yes you can use it to eat cereal, I guess, or you can dip the nozzle in paint and create wonderful art, or maybe you can load an AR-15 with 30 rounds and shoot at a giant wall of cheese to make hipster Swiss cheese, but most people realize why guns exist - to end life. Human life, or animal life, but some form of life. I hear various arguments…

> A gun if fundamentally designed to kill. That's the only reason it exists.

Yes, and people need to kill other people sometimes to defend their lives and the lives of their loved ones. You may not like this reason, but that's the truth.

Re: ‘I Fundamentally Believe That My Time at Reddit Made the World a Worse Place’

#530

Post by TomMckenny » Fri, Apr 20, 2018, 2:09 AM UTC

naasking wrote: post #527

TomMckenny wrote: post #525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Yeah, I'm not convinced. If enough people enjoyed using the item in question recreationally, there'd be enough pushback to an outright ban. No doubt. Especially if a large industry emerged to service that recreation. >This doesn't follow from the premises. I'd wager that every item has an ethical use. Normally a manufacturer does not get away with a product that he knows will cause 30k deaths per year just by saying…

> Normally a manufacturer does not get away with a product that he knows will cause 30k deaths per year just by saying that behavior, which is the most common behavior, constitutes misuse. Is it the most common behaviour for guns though? Because something like 1 in 3 households in America has a gun, but 1 in 3 households does not house a murderer. > Bulk caffeine is massively more restricted then AK47s Just for the r…

> Is it the most common behaviour for guns though? Because something like 1 in 3 households in America has a gun, but 1 in 3 households does not house a murderer.

But do they do anything other than sit on a shelf? Generally after having provided a flash of false psychological comfort at the moment of purchase, that's where they go and stay. At most they might be used to shoot beer cans in an empty field once a year. So while mothballs and clocks might be doing something by sitting, it's hard to see that of high capacity weapons. Particular since they themselves are much more often stolen from those shelves than used to prevent theft.