It's Time for the 99% to Give Back to the 1% • Hacker News Board

Re: It's Time for the 99% to Give Back to the 1%

#11

Post by throw2016 » Thu, Apr 19, 2018, 10:11 PM UTC

The fantasists are back. If you can create so much value by yourself why even remain in society and crib for decades on end. Go create the value and enjoy it. Show us. No one will come to your wonderland to steal the fruits of your genius.

If this anti-human ideology actually worked, these self appointed geniuses would have long left society and created value all by themselves, but currently its as petty as putting up a stall in a club and refusing to pay the fees.

It takes a huge amount of time, generational effort and resources to build a functioning civilized society in which everyone is vested and thus peaceful. Nothing is free, and it appears its the 'makers' who want to be the takers while feigning a childish self serving ignorance of how civilization works.

Even animal species that are social look out for one another in order to survive and thrive, human social instincts are far more sophisticated. To deny it altogether and seek to reduce human relations to economic interactions is to regress to barbarism.

Re: It's Time for the 99% to Give Back to the 1%

#12

Post by s_m_t » Thu, Apr 19, 2018, 10:22 PM UTC

peatmoss wrote: post #9

I applaud this evidently self-made man. I only wish I could tell him that there is a place in the world where his exceptionalism can soar and he can live his laissez-faire dream: Somalia. Let’s help this man emigrate.

A failed socialist state that actually saw many improvements during its collapse into anarchy doesn't seem to help your point.

Re: It's Time for the 99% to Give Back to the 1%

#13

Post by CryptoPunk » Thu, Apr 19, 2018, 10:33 PM UTC

peatmoss wrote: post #9

I applaud this evidently self-made man. I only wish I could tell him that there is a place in the world where his exceptionalism can soar and he can live his laissez-faire dream: Somalia. Let’s help this man emigrate.

I don't see him advocating anarchy, let alone one dominated by Al Capones.

Somalia is not laissez faire..

Re: It's Time for the 99% to Give Back to the 1%

#14

Post by CryptoPunk » Thu, Apr 19, 2018, 10:35 PM UTC

throw2016 wrote: post #11

The fantasists are back. If you can create so much value by yourself why even remain in society and crib for decades on end. Go create the value and enjoy it. Show us. No one will come to your wonderland to steal the fruits of your genius. If this anti-human ideology actually worked, these self appointed geniuses would have long left society and created value all by themselves, but currently its as petty as putting u…

He didn't say people can create value by themselves. I recommend you read the article more closely and truly understand what he's saying.

I would argue his argument is overly simplistic for two reasons:

* many of those who engage in nonremunerative work contribute just as much as those who have accumulated millions. Saying the 99% owe the 1% is just as much of an over-generalization as the reverse

* many institutions allow people to earn wealth from activity that is socially harmful, like politicians turned corporate lobbyists who earn millions getting subsidies and regulatory barriers to competition for their employers, or like public sector bureaucrats who sway public opinion in support of useless government work just to ensure their department budget continues to grow.

Re: It's Time for the 99% to Give Back to the 1%

#15

Post by craftyguy » Thu, Apr 19, 2018, 10:35 PM UTC

sli wrote: post #10

beaconstudios wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

your metaphor was lost on me. Do you mind clarifying?

The metaphor there is trying to gouge/scam someone by pretending like the shininess of a penny is tied to its value. I can't read the article because of the paywall, but I'm a

> but I'm a

Did you intentionally leave that to the HN comment reader to finish?

Re: It's Time for the 99% to Give Back to the 1%

#16

Post by bendlas » Thu, Apr 19, 2018, 10:37 PM UTC

Let's dispell another popular myth: Demand and Supply isn't nessecarily an indicator of value. It only follows value, if the power balance is close to equilibrium. Otherwise, Power picks and shapes the demand it wants. How much value has been lost to superior marketing?

Re: It's Time for the 99% to Give Back to the 1%

#17

Post by beaconstudios » Thu, Apr 19, 2018, 10:43 PM UTC

bendlas wrote: post #16

Let's dispell another popular myth: Demand and Supply isn't nessecarily an indicator of value. It only follows value, if the power balance is close to equilibrium. Otherwise, Power picks and shapes the demand it wants. How much value has been lost to superior marketing?

there are flaws in supply and demand sure, but it's mostly working. Is there a more effective model? The labour theory of value is clearly inferior given high levels of automation and serves much better as a yardstick in Marx' analyses of capitalism than as a fundamental basis of value.

Re: It's Time for the 99% to Give Back to the 1%

#18

Post by ohazi » Thu, Apr 19, 2018, 10:43 PM UTC

peatmoss wrote: post #9

I applaud this evidently self-made man. I only wish I could tell him that there is a place in the world where his exceptionalism can soar and he can live his laissez-faire dream: Somalia. Let’s help this man emigrate.

Apparently this guy is an heir.

Re: It's Time for the 99% to Give Back to the 1%

#19

Post by peatmoss » Thu, Apr 19, 2018, 10:49 PM UTC

s_m_t wrote: post #12

peatmoss wrote: post #9

I applaud this evidently self-made man. I only wish I could tell him that there is a place in the world where his exceptionalism can soar and he can live his laissez-faire dream: Somalia. Let’s help this man emigrate.

A failed socialist state that actually saw many improvements during its collapse into anarchy doesn't seem to help your point.

Oh right, the author in the article isn’t advocating laissez-faire at all. He’s advocating that the underclasses pay the taxes for the state services (such as police) that would keep the state from descending into anarchy. He wants socialism for the rich.

Re: It's Time for the 99% to Give Back to the 1%

#20

Post by CryptoPunk » Thu, Apr 19, 2018, 10:50 PM UTC

beaconstudios wrote: post #8

squozzer wrote: post #6

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed some of Atlas Shrugged. >It's not the Henry Fords and Steve Jobs who exploit people. Problem is not all of the 1% is Steve Jobs, Henry Ford or Warren Buffett. It also includes, for example, royal families whose contribution is not intellectual. >When you work in a modern factory, you are paid, not only for your labor, but for all the productive genius which has made that factory possible…

> Paying someone less than the value they provide is what makes capitalism work. Not even CEOs or founders are exempt from this law, though I'm sure more than one skates awfully close. But who says what the value you provide as a worker is, if not the job market? The original complaint from Marx and pals as I understand it, is that the profit generated by the company represents the stolen labour value. So does that m…

>>So does that mean that as long as a company takes no profit (or presumably just doesn't pay dividends,

Dividends come out of profits. According to Marxist gobbledygook, any profit, meaning return to the shareholders, is theft from the workers, which implies investors should get nothing for investing.

This sham of an ideology is responsible for tens of millions of deaths.