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The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

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Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#621

Post by pdonis »

tytytytytytytyt wrote: post #546
pdonis wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Solving a problem within a fixed time period is the best real world scenario for programmers. Not if the fixed time period is 45 minutes with an interviewer looking over your shoulder.

Lots of real world problems are troubleshooted in less than that time, under more pressure, and have far more variables to consider/are far more difficult, like build failures. The scenario here sounds like it's as relaxed and simple as you can get without it being so easy it tests nothing. Are you assuming the interviewer always yells like he's Sam Kinison?

> Lots of real world problems are troubleshooted in less than that time, under more pressure, and have far more variables to consider/are far more difficult, like build failures.

Yes, and they're troubleshooted by people who are already intimately familiar with the systems they're troubleshooting. Nobody in the real world writes an app for a requirement they've never seen before from scratch in 45 minutes.

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#622

Post by iaw »

timr wrote: post #600
newobj wrote: post #575

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, for example, I spent two days implementing a typeahead search results system for Etsy, including writing my own ingestion pipeline, map-reduce framework, index builder, and request processor. Of course Etsy already had their own stuff, this was just a toy done in Java. It was fun. Got offered the job but didn't take it for personal reasons that cropped up concurrent w/ the interview process.

"I spent two days implementing a typeahead search results system for Etsy, including writing my own ingestion pipeline, map-reduce framework, index builder, and request processor." Seriously? You did all of that? For a take-home interview problem?? Oy. This is why companies get away with this crap... I'm going to say something harsh, but you really need to hear it: you failed at your number one responsibilty. It does…

I'm just generally impressed that they can get it done in 2 days. Those seem like a pretty filled-up 48 hours.

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#623

Post by cableshaft »

ironchef wrote: post #496
collyw wrote: post #489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think if they can talk you through some code its more relevant than if it was written by them or not. Maintenance of other peoples code is usually more difficult than understanding what you wrote yourself. The best interview I had from a technical perspective was when I was asked to bring in my laptop with some of my code. , talk a bit about it and add a quick feature. No pressure as I knew the code and the framewo…

"Maintenance of other peoples code is usually more difficult than understanding what you wrote yourself." This is true. Often the types of things that folks look for though are nuances and style that come through with what someone writes. Do they have comments in their code? What standards are they following? Do they have test cases? How well do they handle exceptions? Etc. The structure and accoutrement that comes a…

I'm a lot more minamalist about comments, documentation, and unit tests with personal projects at home than I am at work. The stuff I work on at home are for my own enjoyment, and usually the projects are small enough and my time to work on them short enough that I don't put extra time making sure everything is ironclad. Good descriptive function and variable names and decent structure is about all you can expect with that code.

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#624

Post by pnw_hazor »

vpmpaul wrote: post #545
speby wrote: post #218

Our industry's hiring practices are absolutely obnoxious. In an ideal world, you could trust someone's resume. e.g. "I've written large production programs in C." Ok, great, so then clearly this person knows C so there should be no need to dissect code or run them thru some linked list algorithm and see if they know how to use pointers correctly. Yet, we do. Ok, then what about open source contributions (if they have…

I've hired and it is astounding the number of people with CS degrees and years of experience that can barely program. Until there is some sort of professional IT association like the BAR for lawyers this type of treatment will continue. Unfortunately there are about 1000 competing bodies trying to be this association. It seems that the tech crowd would rather in-fight than work together to be treated seriously.

You greatly underestimate the mapping of a law license to competency.

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#625

Post by timr »

iaw wrote: post #622
timr wrote: post #600

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I spent two days implementing a typeahead search results system for Etsy, including writing my own ingestion pipeline, map-reduce framework, index builder, and request processor." Seriously? You did all of that? For a take-home interview problem?? Oy. This is why companies get away with this crap... I'm going to say something harsh, but you really need to hear it: you failed at your number one responsibilty. It does…

I'm just generally impressed that they can get it done in 2 days. Those seem like a pretty filled-up 48 hours.

If the OP is as talented as represented, it's all the more important that they learn not to sell themselves short!

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#626

Post by lajhsdfkl »

fao_ wrote: post #617
lajhsdfkl wrote: post #591

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Agreed. The solution is to not work at a tech company, but instead work in a tech capacity at a real company. Ha ok, this is a sure fire way to experience the worst of what the industry has to offer. >Better benefits (I'd rather have proper health coverage and a pension than a room full of toys and vaporware stock options). Tech companies have the best benefits period, what "tech" company did you apply for that didn…

Have you considered that you might both be talking about different sectors of tech, and different countries? The EU / UK / US / etc. tech markets vary wildly in these things.

Of course he could be talking about Europe but there are very few European "tech" companies. Tech is a horrible descriptor of course, he could be talking about 1000 different things.

OP seems to be referring specifically to tech startups with dubious financial situations but then goes on to say that all tech companies are bad to work for

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#627

Post by snowwrestler »

teachrdan wrote: post #265
reaperducer wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Our industry's hiring practices are absolutely obnoxious. Agreed. The solution is to not work at a tech company, but instead work in a tech capacity at a real company. - No silly games (before or after hiring). - Better benefits (I'd rather have proper health coverage and a pension than a room full of toys and vaporware stock options). - Immensely more job security (Henry Ford didn't have an "exit strategy"). - Peo…

Real talk? I'd be concerned that, at a non-tech company, I'd be seen as a IT rather than a software engineer. And the conventional wisdom goes that IT is a cost center. Some of the best career advice I've ever gleaned is to work on something that visibly makes money for the company. I get to do that every day at my tech company. I don't know that I could say that if I worked in a technical capacity in another industr…

Many companies these days make a distinction between IT, digital, and product.

IT runs the network, phones, issues and fixes laptops, maybe provides servers, often is in charge of information security. May own the financial and business intelligence technologies. Unless it's a very enlightened org, this is often the "cost center" team.

Digital talks to the world in a modern way--runs the websites, blogs, social media channels, paid digital ads, etc. Often housed within a larger communications and/or marketing division. Technically a cost center but the visibility makes up for it in the eyes of executives.

Product builds the technology that makes money. This would be like the e-commerce platform, ad network, mobile apps, etc. Executives value things that make money.

Often, all three groups need developers. The tools and roles may differ, but you can be a developer in a major company without feeling "stuck in IT."

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#628

Post by underwater »

pnw_hazor wrote: post #618
stupidcar wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hiring process is a response to the fact that employers cannot trust a single word candidates say about their experience. This isn't paranoia. Literally, most candidates we see cannot code, even when they supposed have a decade or more of industry experience. If the industry wasn't so full of lying incompetents, it wouldn't be an issue.

Well just fire the frauds. Hire using NN days contract-to-perm. Make the permanent offers after NN days.

Onboarding an employee is a huge time suck, and constantly hiring and firing people doesn’t create a great environment for existing employees.

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#629

Post by exodust »

maxk42 wrote: post #580

This literally happened to me last week. On a Friday night before my girlfriend's birthday they sent me -- without warning -- an assignment that "should take about 8 hours". I told them to give the job to someone hungrier than me which was the politest way of telling someone to stuff it I could think of. The company in question advertises here on HN's "Who's hiring?" threads, but the role was brought to my attention…

But you didn't say how long they gave you to do it. Could you hand in the assignment a week later?

I've never been given a homework assignment for a job interview, but I would love it. I absolutely hate the tests they give you on the spot, the last one I did was awful and made me angry! I would much prefer an 8 hour homework assignment. That pressure would be fun, and I get to work with my tools in my comfort zone.

I spend 8 hours playing video games (over a few days), so putting that aside for a challenge with possible good job at the end seems okay to me.

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