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California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

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Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#241

Post by Diederich »

rconti wrote: post #201
Diederich wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> actually high-tech unlike Tesla’s citation needed.

Having toured the Tesla plant a few months after touring BMW in Munich, they're worlds apart. I also toured the Fremont plant back in the NUMMI days. That said, I don't think it's necessarily a huge strike against Tesla; they're at a different scale and at a different stage in the life of the company.

That's pretty fascinating; I'd love to hear more about your various plant tours. Roughly when did you visit BMW and Tesla? Also comparing it to pre-2010 would be interesting. Thanks!

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#242

Post by Diederich »

andromeduck wrote: post #219
Diederich wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> actually high-tech unlike Tesla’s citation needed.

https://youtu.be/HGi-KmYGuZE CFRP + Aluminum, similar volumes as what Tesla was targeting.

From the video: "This is the first time that carbon-fibre-reinforced plastic (CFRP) has been used in automotive volume production. The body structure of the BMW i3 consists entirely of this extremely lightweight and durable material, allowing the extra weight of the batteries for the electric drive system to be cancelled out."

That's cool stuff, thank you!

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#243

Post by jpetso »

rdiddly wrote: post #100
rdiddly wrote: post #18

"...an ideologically motivated attack by an extremist organization working directly with union supporters to create a calculated disinformation campaign against Tesla" vs. "...Tesla failed to report serious injuries on legally mandated reports to make its numbers appear better than they actually were." Now use Occam's Razor.

I love the bit about "working directly with union supporters" too. Am I supposed to recoil in horror upon reading that? "Oh no, not the dreaded union supporters !! And being worked with directly no less!" ...is what I would say if I were Montgomery Burns. Tesla's PR people must be thinking it's better to win over the tiny Burns demographic and not the millions of Homer Simpsons out there.

To be fair, Tesla's target audience is wealthy people, many of which are entrepreneurs or high-level managers and may feel the same as Elon Musk, even if a majority of regular people would shake their head about such comments. If/when Tesla's market expands past the luxury segment, I presume that their communications will also change tone by a bit.

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#244

Post by gcb0 »

jacquesm wrote: post #160
Animats wrote: post #129

The real problem for Tesla is that their destiny is probably to be the next BMW - a good midrange luxury car maker, about #12 in the world on volume. That would be fine except for the excessive market cap. Tesla's market cap exceeded GM's at one point. The stock has to come down a lot if Tesla ends up at BMW's scale. Even with Tesla's most optimistic production estimates, Tesla will make far fewer cars than BMW in th…

If Tesla ends up as the next BMW I would consider that an absolutely astounding success.

> bought shares under valuation based on GMs market share

> doesn't grasp how smaller is the luxury market share

this is the investors tesla scam depends on. this and a million people thinking they could flip a model3 reservation for a profit.

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#245

Post by [deleted] »

IBM wrote: post #84

It's really surprising to me see posts critical of Tesla highly upvoted on HN these days. It tells me the narrative around Tesla is finally starting to break down, and naturally the stock price has declined from its highs as well. A few years ago most of the comments here would have been much more sycophantic. It's very refreshing to see. edit: Ok maybe it's not completely gone yet.

[deleted]

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#246

Post by gniv »

icebraining wrote: post #222
gniv wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From that thread: > Have you investigated any other auto manufacturer? > (ajpreports) I haven't nor has Will. But maybe that's our next venture! That diminishes their credibility a lot in my mind. This is a type of investigation that should be done by people with experience in the area. Especially on a company that pushes the envelope like Tesla.

Some auto manufacturer has to be their first. Why not Tesla?

You're in the schoolyard, shooting hoops. From time to time somebody throws the ball over the fence, and somebody has to run to retrieve it. You get annoyed, but move on. Then the new kid, nerdy, scrawny, with no friends, throws the ball over the fence. You beat him up. Why him? Well, somebody has to be first. Why not him?

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#247

Post by notyourday »

watwut wrote: post #238
notyourday wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, as in the currently observable state because since there's no such thing as evolution, then from the beginning god would have had to create every single relationship that all living and non-living things had, have or will have.

Since God is assumed to be all powerful and all knowing, it would follow that he would have no problem to create the world "correctly".

And that's exactly where Occam's razor is a problem

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#248

Post by watwut »

notyourday wrote: post #247
watwut wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since God is assumed to be all powerful and all knowing, it would follow that he would have no problem to create the world "correctly".

And that's exactly where Occam's razor is a problem

Yes, that is exactly what I am trying to say. You cant use Occam's razor to decide and demanding that other people instantly go with seeming easier solution is manipulative. It relies on people being unwilling to criticize or call Occam's razor use as bullshit - due it being repeated often.

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#249

Post by Semirhage »

komali2 wrote: post #184
Semirhage wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this skepticism consistent? If I browse a few weeks of your comment history, will this tendency to doubt “anything posted on the internet with nothing more than an email requirement” be your norm?

I hope so, but if you were willing to take the time to help me find my biases, I would be more than grateful.

I looked, but as far as I can see you’re right, and it’s consistent. That’s really impressive, and I’m sorry for calling you out like that, I was wrong.

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#250

Post by dang »

taf2 wrote: post #167
on_and_off wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am fine, thanks. I really enjoy not needing a car and don't enjoy driving, even a nice one. The various reports of low quality of Tesla's cars (like their doors :/ ) have also contributed to suppress any tesla envy. If I really needed a car right now, I would start by comparing the different ones on the market, Tesla is not the only player in town anymore.

Uh ok... clearly you have no idea about what a Tesla is or maybe never driven one or even ridden in one... why are you commenting on things you have no experience in?

This crosses into personal attack, which isn't ok on HN. Could you please read the rules and post only civil, substantive comments from now on? Regardless of how wrong another comment is.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

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