‘I Fundamentally Believe That My Time at Reddit Made the World a Worse Place’ • Hacker News Board

Re: ‘I Fundamentally Believe That My Time at Reddit Made the World a Worse Place’

#361

Post by killjoywashere » Thu, Apr 19, 2018, 7:09 PM UTC

naasking wrote: post #355

> I had conversations with Jason [Citron] a year ago about the problem of white supremacy on his site, and he said, “I don’t want to invade their privacy by going into their channels and reading what they’re doing.” And I said, “They’re gonna cause deaths because you’re not doing that.” And he said, “You really think so?” And I said, “Yeah.” And sure enough they didn’t do anything, and sure enough deaths were caused…

Feeble minds desire leadership. In the absence of leadership they will devolve into chaos and the least feeble among them will discover that they can lead the mob. In the absence of leadership.

Lead your community or it will destroy you. Put another way, make the future you want. This applies first and foremost to humanity. The clever devices of metal and silicon are secondary. Always.

Re: ‘I Fundamentally Believe That My Time at Reddit Made the World a Worse Place’

#362

Post by nabc45 » Thu, Apr 19, 2018, 7:09 PM UTC

chillwaves wrote: post #310

pjc50 wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neutrality is impossible. Either you ban people for racism or you don't.

Right, so people are arguing against that baseline rule. A baseline rule prohibiting threatening violence, most people agree with, but apparently it is a controversial attack on free speech if a private website wants to moderate the use of its platform to promote hatred against people based on the color of their skin. And banning racism is being held as an example of liberal bias! Amazing.

Sticks and stones.

Re: ‘I Fundamentally Believe That My Time at Reddit Made the World a Worse Place’

#363

Post by ctlby » Thu, Apr 19, 2018, 7:09 PM UTC

naasking wrote: post #355

> I had conversations with Jason [Citron] a year ago about the problem of white supremacy on his site, and he said, “I don’t want to invade their privacy by going into their channels and reading what they’re doing.” And I said, “They’re gonna cause deaths because you’re not doing that.” And he said, “You really think so?” And I said, “Yeah.” And sure enough they didn’t do anything, and sure enough deaths were caused…

The idea that these "hate speech" venues have caused deaths is thrown around quite often, but I wonder if a connection has been found in even a single case. Gaping chasm between rhetoric and reality.

Re: ‘I Fundamentally Believe That My Time at Reddit Made the World a Worse Place’

#364

Post by young_unixer » Thu, Apr 19, 2018, 7:11 PM UTC

eanzenberg wrote: post #254

sandov wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel that leftist movements are leaking much more than T_D. Comments which — without being racist or sexist — go against the popular & politically correct leftist stance are downvoted to oblivion. Meanwhile, extremely statist stances are tolerated and celebrated by users.

Reddit's hive-mind is ultra-liberal.

Ultra-liberal, in the USA meaning of 'liberal'.

Originally, the word referred to classical liberalism, which has freedom as its primary value.

Modern 'liberals' — the one's you're referring to — have values very different to the original liberals. They are, in fact, opposite in the current political landscape.

It's worth making the distinction to avoid confusion.

Re: ‘I Fundamentally Believe That My Time at Reddit Made the World a Worse Place’

#365

Post by baby » Thu, Apr 19, 2018, 7:11 PM UTC

naasking wrote: post #355

> I had conversations with Jason [Citron] a year ago about the problem of white supremacy on his site, and he said, “I don’t want to invade their privacy by going into their channels and reading what they’re doing.” And I said, “They’re gonna cause deaths because you’re not doing that.” And he said, “You really think so?” And I said, “Yeah.” And sure enough they didn’t do anything, and sure enough deaths were caused…

Alright. I’ll reply to the troll. How are weapon manufacturers not responsible for the deaths caused by their toys? What baffles me is how intelligent people want to live in a society where everybody carries weapons.

Re: ‘I Fundamentally Believe That My Time at Reddit Made the World a Worse Place’

#366

Post by Recoveringhobo » Thu, Apr 19, 2018, 7:12 PM UTC

notMick wrote: post #299

psychometry wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but The_Donald is always leaking. I've seen plenty of sexist/racist content on subreddits for cities, sports teams, memes, etc. Reddit has allowed itself to be a platform used in part for really despicable content, and the despicable people who generate that content regularly venture outside their cesspools.

What does that mean though? People who post in one sub aren't allowed to be in any other sub? People in TD can write in others subs too, as can people from late stage capitalism. Wanting to forcibly segregate and silence people with different opinions is I think at the heart of the problem with silicon valley right now. 'remove those who disagree with me' has killed hundreds of millions over the years, and is a commo…

We have this debate over and over again in r/berkeley, a community which I used to be an active part of. Essentially, every time Berkeley makes national news the sub gets brigaded by TD. Some of those trolls stick around and then post tired tirades anytime there is something remotely political on the sub. And some of them even try to pose as Berkeley students.

Almost everyone on the sub is tired of the constant brigading and would like more active moderation of the trolls. The main moderator refuses to do anything and has similar views to your own, thinking that we should welcome them with open arms. This has the effect where Berkeley students and residents can't even talk about things affecting their community as they get drowned out by the mass of right-wing trolls. And this usually comes at times when its most crucial for there to be an avenue for Berkeley students/residents to have a platform to speak with each other (e.g. protests, riots, local political issues).

Re: ‘I Fundamentally Believe That My Time at Reddit Made the World a Worse Place’

#367

Post by TearsInTheRain » Thu, Apr 19, 2018, 7:13 PM UTC

ctlby wrote: post #363

naasking wrote: post #355

> I had conversations with Jason [Citron] a year ago about the problem of white supremacy on his site, and he said, “I don’t want to invade their privacy by going into their channels and reading what they’re doing.” And I said, “They’re gonna cause deaths because you’re not doing that.” And he said, “You really think so?” And I said, “Yeah.” And sure enough they didn’t do anything, and sure enough deaths were caused…

The idea that these "hate speech" venues have caused deaths is thrown around quite often, but I wonder if a connection has been found in even a single case. Gaping chasm between rhetoric and reality.

I wonder how many lives have been saved because hateful people on public forums had their views challenged and were able to change themselves.

Re: ‘I Fundamentally Believe That My Time at Reddit Made the World a Worse Place’

#368

Post by TearsInTheRain » Thu, Apr 19, 2018, 7:14 PM UTC

baby wrote: post #365

naasking wrote: post #355

> I had conversations with Jason [Citron] a year ago about the problem of white supremacy on his site, and he said, “I don’t want to invade their privacy by going into their channels and reading what they’re doing.” And I said, “They’re gonna cause deaths because you’re not doing that.” And he said, “You really think so?” And I said, “Yeah.” And sure enough they didn’t do anything, and sure enough deaths were caused…

Alright. I’ll reply to the troll. How are weapon manufacturers not responsible for the deaths caused by their toys? What baffles me is how intelligent people want to live in a society where everybody carries weapons.

They are not responsible in the same that car manufacturers are not responsible when one of their toys gets driven into a crowd of people.

Re: ‘I Fundamentally Believe That My Time at Reddit Made the World a Worse Place’

#369

Post by revnja » Thu, Apr 19, 2018, 7:14 PM UTC

baby wrote: post #365

naasking wrote: post #355

> I had conversations with Jason [Citron] a year ago about the problem of white supremacy on his site, and he said, “I don’t want to invade their privacy by going into their channels and reading what they’re doing.” And I said, “They’re gonna cause deaths because you’re not doing that.” And he said, “You really think so?” And I said, “Yeah.” And sure enough they didn’t do anything, and sure enough deaths were caused…

Alright. I’ll reply to the troll. How are weapon manufacturers not responsible for the deaths caused by their toys? What baffles me is how intelligent people want to live in a society where everybody carries weapons.

>> What baffles me is how intelligent people want to live in a society where everybody carries weapons.

One reasoning for that (at least in the US) is that we'd rather have everybody carrying a weapon instead of just the criminals.

Re: ‘I Fundamentally Believe That My Time at Reddit Made the World a Worse Place’

#370

Post by PurpleBoxDragon » Thu, Apr 19, 2018, 7:14 PM UTC

naasking wrote: post #355

> I had conversations with Jason [Citron] a year ago about the problem of white supremacy on his site, and he said, “I don’t want to invade their privacy by going into their channels and reading what they’re doing.” And I said, “They’re gonna cause deaths because you’re not doing that.” And he said, “You really think so?” And I said, “Yeah.” And sure enough they didn’t do anything, and sure enough deaths were caused…

More than agreeing or not with this line of thinking, I find the bigger problem is how selectively it is applied. People will point out that if we ban guns, we wouldn't have to worry about school shootings. Even if we ignored the logistics of such a challenge and agreed on the conclusion, why is the same logic not applied to things like alcohol and all the harms that results (drunk driving, alcoholics ruining their lives, etc). And some people do that (I think MADD would be one case, especially for the subset of their members wanting to ban all alcohol); yet even in that case those people selectively apply the same reasoning about something else.

Look at those who ignore the harm of buying drugs from unverified sources, where you may be paying money to a supply chain ran by the cartel. People are tortured and killed to get the drugs delivered, and if one doesn't verify (or if one insufficiently verifies) then they are funding such activities, but many are willing to ignore that. But change from drugs to escorting and you'll find some of the same people now saying that it should be banned because without sufficient verification it is possible to paying people who are coerced or forced into doing it. The overall argument has valid points and problem points, but the discrepancy of when it is applies makes discussing the validity harder when it seems people aren't being transparent about their motivations to begin with.