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The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

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Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#341
post #218

Our industry's hiring practices are absolutely obnoxious. In an ideal world, you could trust someone's resume. e.g. "I've written large production programs in C." Ok, great, so then clearly this person knows C so there should be no need to dissect code or run them thru some linked list algorithm and see if they know how to use pointers correctly. Yet, we do. Ok, then what about open source contributions (if they have…

> Apart from getting a candidate to actually pump out some code, even trivially, we don't really have a way to de-facto verify that the person says they can do what they say they can do, short of a personal reference from someone, say, in the company already that knows and has worked with the person in the past. And it's enough for someone with good social skills to get a great recommendation without skills.

True, yes. Although in this case, I am referring to perhaps a software engineer (who you already know to be good since he is there and in the company and on the team) who would personally vouch for someone else's skills. At least in a case like that, I have trust that their vouching for someone else is legit.

But this tends to be rare in practice, of course, because the pool of potential people being hired is very large.

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#342
post #24
post #17

I don't get it. The whole industry is complaining about not being able to hire developers, yet there seems to be some kind of competition who can come up with the most awkward hiring process. Requiring homework is a great way to deter the kind of people companies should be most interested in hiring: those who are not actively looking for a new job. I find this trend especially surprising considering that the U.S. has…

Just that firing someone is legal does not mean it is easy. Especially if you have been working closely with the said person for months. And then there are people who are very nice human beings but their performance just isn't good enough. Firing them is hard and pretty bad for team morale. I'd much rather do that extra work during the hiring process than have to deal with a bad hire later.

Honestly, keeping someone around who is under par is bad for morale because your other teammates have to make up for the difference. It is hard though, but it's business and if you aren't up for it, you probably shouldn't be in that position.

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#343
post #301

It's unreal that will people will bitch and moan about having to invest a couple days, maybe even a whole week in cramming/prepping/interviewing, to perform on-demand, one time, for a job that realistically will earn them $100k, $200k, $300k, $400k+ a year. Meanwhile people that work harder than us 5 days a week for the entire duration of their career will make 1/2, 1/4, 1/6th, or less of income, with none of the per…

Look at other fields for examples. Few have to interview like devs do. Other professionals may have continuing education like conferences, but that's not the same. Imagine nurses or docs getting asked to take vitals for an interview.

I mean, programmers also don't go through a medical school equivalent or residency. We don't take boards. I'm married to a doctor and we were together through her time in medical school and residency. If I had to choose between skill checks in the interviewing process and the 8 grueling years of hell that was med school and residency, I will take option 1 without a second of consideration.

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to hate it, but have now performed enough interviews of supposedly senior devs with decades of experience. I've literally seen someone who did firmware for the space shuttle grind for 45 minutes on fizz buzz without making progress. Like, I'd they struggle for ten minutes or so, I take a step back and say "Ok, screw syntax, let's just vaguely talk about what needs to happen and mock up some pseudo code.". Even…

That sounds to me like fight or flight response. Happens to me sometimes, and when it does I can’t code worth a damn, in spite of having a decade and a half of experience on the top projects at some of the top companies in the industry. This, in fact, happened to me the first time I interviewed with Google: I bombed that pretty spectacularly. The second time I applied I already had a couple of very generous offers el…

I did that with the google phone screen. It didn't help that the interview really took a "well that's interesting" approach and basically killed the interview.

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#345
post #218

Our industry's hiring practices are absolutely obnoxious. In an ideal world, you could trust someone's resume. e.g. "I've written large production programs in C." Ok, great, so then clearly this person knows C so there should be no need to dissect code or run them thru some linked list algorithm and see if they know how to use pointers correctly. Yet, we do. Ok, then what about open source contributions (if they have…

What would you prefer? Some sort of rating or ranking system based off of objective standards?

Well, perhaps. I don't want to suggest "licensing" because that's kind of a naughty word around here but man, it sure would be nice if something like that could take the extreme repetition and time wasting of "technical screens" out of the interview process completely.

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#346
post #301

It's unreal that will people will bitch and moan about having to invest a couple days, maybe even a whole week in cramming/prepping/interviewing, to perform on-demand, one time, for a job that realistically will earn them $100k, $200k, $300k, $400k+ a year. Meanwhile people that work harder than us 5 days a week for the entire duration of their career will make 1/2, 1/4, 1/6th, or less of income, with none of the per…

Many programmers make nowhere near $100k and so many programmers do a ton of extra unpaid work; and week-long interview preparations are just one of them. Just last night, a fellow programmer I know is being forced into "mandatory unpaid overtime" for the purposes of learning new things for his company. He has to learn more crap, together with coworkers, in his own 'freetime', regularly, unpaid. And I can tell you he…

The problem with your friend's situation is not a bad interview process, it's that they're being taken advantage of, and for some reason not improving their own situation, in a market where a good candidate is calling the shots on the terms of their employment.

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to hate it, but have now performed enough interviews of supposedly senior devs with decades of experience. I've literally seen someone who did firmware for the space shuttle grind for 45 minutes on fizz buzz without making progress. Like, I'd they struggle for ten minutes or so, I take a step back and say "Ok, screw syntax, let's just vaguely talk about what needs to happen and mock up some pseudo code.". Even…

Which may have proven nothing more than this person was too nervous to function.

If you've been coding for 30 years and you get too nervous to write fizzbuzz when talking to people, that doesn't mean they should hire you, that means you either have personal life problems going on or you need to see a psychologist

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#349
post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm rethinking what I did on my last hiring position. I sent a take-home test that should take about 2-3 hours to those who sent in a decent resume. It filtered out a little over half of the applicants I responded to, as in half didn't respond. It further filtered out a small segment who didn't do very well on the test. A filter is definitely needed to weed out those who are simply casting a wide net, are looking for…

>I really can't call everyone who has a decent resume, its way too time consuming. Even if you have, say, 100 resumes you consider "decent" (which to me would be an impossibly high number) then you need to be able to rank them, so you can pick, say, the top 10, and invest some followup time in those.

Totally, by the time we have a phone interview I'm pretty seriously considering that candidate and I want to get to know their personality better to see if they're a good fit, so whatever I can do to shrink that pool in a way that's fair to everyone is necessary.

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#350
post #301

It's unreal that will people will bitch and moan about having to invest a couple days, maybe even a whole week in cramming/prepping/interviewing, to perform on-demand, one time, for a job that realistically will earn them $100k, $200k, $300k, $400k+ a year. Meanwhile people that work harder than us 5 days a week for the entire duration of their career will make 1/2, 1/4, 1/6th, or less of income, with none of the per…

Look at other fields for examples. Few have to interview like devs do. Other professionals may have continuing education like conferences, but that's not the same. Imagine nurses or docs getting asked to take vitals for an interview.

Imagine a nurse that failed to properly take vitals during an interview
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