Live data from Hacker News

Widescreen laptops are dumb

theverge.com

71–80 of 173 posts

Re: Widescreen laptops are dumb

#71
post #66
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A 4.8 inch Galaxy S for example is 720x1280 or 1280x720. iPhone 6 1334 x 750 or 750 x 1334. Really, a small resolution laptop is vastly less common than mobile on most websites. Looking ugly but working for group A is much better than not working for larger group B.

I don't think you understand how browsers on mobile report resolutions. Those HiDPI devices report widths and heights as the actual widths and heights divided by the device pixel ratio.

I can tell you how the iPhone responds to CSS media in our test setup, should I be doing something else?

Yea, iPhone X should say 812px width landscape etc, but that's not necessarily happening.

Re: Widescreen laptops are dumb

#72
"As if all that wasn’t enough, there’s also the matter of tabs. Tabs are a couple of decades old now, and, like much of the rest of the desktop and web environment, they were initially thought up in an age where the predominant computer displays were close to square with a 4:3 aspect ratio."

Tabs are at least three decades old now, and they weren't originally restricted to just one edge of the window:

>Tab (GUI):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tab_(GUI)

>The WordVision DOS word processor for the IBM PC in 1982 was perhaps the first commercially available product with a tabbed interface. PC Magazine in 1994 wrote that it "has served as a free R&D department for the software business—its bones picked over for a decade by programmers looking for so-called new ideas". The NeWS version of UniPress's Gosling Emacs text editor was another early product, with multiple tabbed windows in 1988. It was used to develop an authoring tool for the Ben Shneiderman's HyperTIES browser (the NeWS workstation version of The Interactive Encyclopedia System), in 1988. HyperTIES also supported pie menus for managing windows and browsing hypermedia documents with PostScript applets. Don Hopkins developed and released several versions of tabbed window frames for the NeWS window system as free software, which the window manager applied to all NeWS applications, and enabled users to drag the tabs around to any edge of the window.

Notice the layout of the overlapping Emacs windows with tabs sticking out of their right edge: since text is much wider than it is tall, you can stack up a lot more tabbed windows with tabs on their left or right side, and still read their labels.

>HCIL Demo - HyperTIES Authoring with UniPress Emacs on NeWS:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhmU2B79EDU

>Demo of UniPress Emacs based HyperTIES authoring tool, by Don Hopkins, at the University of Maryland Human Computer Interaction Lab.

Notice how you can drag the tabs of these NeWS windows to any edge or proportion of the height or width, and use the tab as a proxy for the window by popping up a window management pie menu on it, even if the rest of the window is covered:

>NeWS Tab Window Demo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMcmQk-q0k4

>Demo of the Pie Menu Tab Window Manager for The NeWS Toolkit 2.0. Developed and demonstrated by Don Hopkins.

Notice how the tabbed windows can be stuck on the visual PostScript stack like a short order chef's "spike". The tabs enable "direct stack manipulation": and they are constrained (by "snap dragging") to slide up and down on the stack (rearranging the order of the items on the PostScript stack), and can be pulled far enough away that they "pop" off the stack, or dragged back onto the stack so they snap into place, and you can directly drop them into any depth of the stack.

>PSIBER Space Deck Demo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuC_DDgQmsM

>Demo of the NeWS PSIBER Space Deck. Research performed under the direction of Mark Weiser and Ben Shneiderman. Developed and documented thanks to the support of John Gilmore and Julia Menapace. Developed and demonstrated by Don Hopkins. Described in "The Shape of PSIBER Space: PostScript Interactive Bug Eradication Routines".

>The Shape of PSIBER Space - October 1989. PostScript Interactive Bug Eradication Routines.

http://www.donhopkins.com/drupal/node/97

>There is a text window onto a NeWS process, a PostScript interpreter with which you can interact (as with an "executive"). PostScript is a stack based language, so the window has a spike sticking up out of it, representing the process's operand stack. Objects on the process's stack are displayed in windows with their tabs pinned on the spike. (See figure 1) You can feed PostScript expressions to the interpreter by typing them with the keyboard, or pointing and clicking at them with the mouse, and the stack display will be dynamically updated to show the results.

>Objects on the PSIBER Space Deck appear in overlapping windows, with labeled tabs sticking out of them. Each object has a label, denoting its type and value, i.e. "integer 42". Each window tab shows the type of the object directly contained in the window. Objects nested within other objects have their type displayed to the left of their value. The labels of executable objects are displayed in italics. [...]

>Tab Windows

>The objects on the deck are displayed in windows with labeled tabs sticking out of them, showing the data type of the object. You can move an object around by grabbing its tab with the mouse and dragging it. You can perform direct stack manipulation, pushing it onto stack by dragging its tab onto the spike, and changing its place on the stack by dragging it up and down the spike. It implements a mutant form of "Snap-dragging", that constrains non-vertical movement when an object is snapped onto the stack, but allows you to pop it off by pulling it far enough away or lifting it off the top. [Bier, Snap-dragging] The menu that pops up over the tab lets you do things to the whole window, like changing view characteristics, moving the tab around, repainting or recomputing the layout, and printing the view.

>Designing to Facilitate Browsing: A Look Back at the Hyperties Workstation Browser. By Ben Shneiderman, Catherine Plaisant, Rodrigo Botafogo, Don Hopkins, William Weiland.

http://www.donhopkins.com/drupal/node/102

>Since storyboards are text files, they can be created and edited in any text editor as well as be manipulated by UNIX facilities (spelling checkers, sort, grep, etc...). On our SUN version Unipress Emacs provides a multiple windows, menus and programming environment to author a database. Graphics tools are launched from Emacs to create or edit the graphic components and target tools are available to mark the shape of each selectable graphic element. The authoring tool checks the links and verifies the syntax of the article markup. It also allows the author to preview the database by easily following links from Emacs buffer to buffer. Author and browser can also be run concurrently for final editing. [...]

>The more recent NeWS version of Hyperties on the SUN workstation uses two large windows that partition the screen vertically. Each window can have links and users can decide whether to put the destination article on top of the current window or on the other window. The pie menus made it rapid and easy to permit such a selection. When users click on a selectable target a pie menu appears (Figure 1) and allows users to specify in which window the destination article should be displayed (practically users merely click then move the mouse in direction of the desire window) . This strategy is easy to explain to visitors and satisfying to use. An early pilot test with four subjects was run, but the appeal of this strategy is very strong and we have not conducted more rigorous usability tests.

>In the author tool, we employ a more elaborate window strategy to manage the 15-25 articles that an author may want to keep close at hand. We assume that authors on the SUN/Hyperties will be quite knowledgeable in UNIX and Emacs and therefore would be eager to have a richer set of window management features, even if the perceptual, cognitive, and motor load were greater. Tab windows have their title bars extending to the right of the window, instead of at the top. When even 15 or 20 windows are open, the tabs may still all be visible for reference or selection, even thought the contents of the windows are obscured. This is a convenient strategy for many authoring tasks, and it may be effective in other applications as well.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/29/HyperTIESAuth...

Unfortunately most of today's "cargo cult" imitative user interface designs have all "standardized" on the idea that the menu bars all belong at the top of the screen and nowhere else, menus items should layout vertically downward and no other directions, tabs should be rigidly attacked to the top edge and no other edge, and the user can't move them around. But there's no reason it has to be that way.

Re: Widescreen laptops are dumb

#74
post #15

The big problem I have started seeing is web design assuming you always browse using a maximized window. Combine this with a prevalent market of wide screens and most sites won’t look right without at least 1200px. So once you put anything like a toolbar or inspector on this side, you have a problem. Designers of many sites I have to use daily seem to assume I’d never want to see two windows at once, let alone rearra…

I'd upvote this comment more if I could.

Since the 90s, my first test with any new design was to resize the browser and see how the page reacts. Most of the time they failed.

Re: Widescreen laptops are dumb

#75

I don't know why this article is only about laptops. It's difficult to buy a square desktop monitor these days too. I've been complaining about it for years. Widescreen is a terrible shape for code. I don't need more horizontal space, I need more lines. What am I going to use horizontal space for? People say turn the monitor vertical but that's horrible too. The screen is designed to be viewed at a certain angle for…

Any modern (ie IPS) screen has a viewing angle wide enough for vertical to look perfectly fine. Wide screen plus a tiling window manager will change your life. Going back to the days of 4:3 sounds awful.

Re: Widescreen laptops are dumb

#76

I don't know why this article is only about laptops. It's difficult to buy a square desktop monitor these days too. I've been complaining about it for years. Widescreen is a terrible shape for code. I don't need more horizontal space, I need more lines. What am I going to use horizontal space for? People say turn the monitor vertical but that's horrible too. The screen is designed to be viewed at a certain angle for…

I have two 27" Apple monitors, one in portrait and one in landscape orientation. The portrait orientation monitor I use for code. They look identical, there is no degradation (that I can see) from looking at the monitor rotated 90°.

If anyone is interested, I use the VESA mount conversion kit from Apple and have the monitors mounted on the Amazon Basics monitor arms, which I highly recommend.

Re: Widescreen laptops are dumb

#77
I disagree with the premise of the article that you only use one application at time on a laptop. I almost always use a split screen setup where I have my notes on the right side and another application on the left. In my view, wider is better.

Re: Widescreen laptops are dumb

#78
post #65

> Lateral space is simply not as valuable as vertical space in desktop apps or on the web. This is not the fault of the hardware, it's the fault of the software. I want more screen space, and I'm not asking for a square laptop and I'm not wanting my screen any taller than it is. Browsers should optimize for vertical space and let you reuse your horizontal space. Tree-style or vertical tabs are perfect for this. But f…

> Lateral space is simply not as valuable as vertical space in desktop apps or on the web. This easily boils down to the fact that our language is horizontal, and we don't read rotated text very well. It informs design decisions, creating horizontal tab bars, menu bars, navigations, etc.

Vertically organized tabs use more pixels, but in addition to demanding less valuable real estate (when in fullscreen at least), also let you have more tabs open at once without scrolling the tab bar.

Re: Widescreen laptops are dumb

#79

I don't know why this article is only about laptops. It's difficult to buy a square desktop monitor these days too. I've been complaining about it for years. Widescreen is a terrible shape for code. I don't need more horizontal space, I need more lines. What am I going to use horizontal space for? People say turn the monitor vertical but that's horrible too. The screen is designed to be viewed at a certain angle for…

I have a 27" Apple monitor at work and it comfortably supports 3-4 columns of text in Sublime. I'd much rather be able to have an extra column available rather than an extra 100 lines in a 1-2 column layout.

Definitely this. I get a nice 4 column layout that works great considering my code is generally 80 chars wide. I wish my monitor where actually 2:35:1 CinemaScope.

Re: Widescreen laptops are dumb

#80
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Get rid of the toolbar, windoze and osx. i3 window manager is a good option -- keyboard is main interface in laptop.

"Annoyed by having toolbar take up vertical space. Easy, just change OS."

Hide the toolbar. Trivial on OSX.
Post reply on HN