Scott Adams: Your Next Gym • Hacker News Board

Re: Scott Adams: Your Next Gym

#21

Post by ryanelkins » Mon, Sep 13, 2010, 5:39 PM UTC

It's interesting to see how this idea is being received. My startup (IActionable.com) actually provides a way to make this happen to a degree. We're mostly focusing on game mechanics for websites at the moment but I really like the idea of moving in to other types of areas as well (we have a few other ideas already). Our informal motto is "If you can record it we can reward it".

I wonder if this co-op mode would be better suited to teams within the same gym. Maybe it would work better without any teams at all? Individual competition through leaderboards could be interesting. The motivational factor, especially for new people could really be useful as well. I know a lot of people are saying that it is not in the best interest of the gym - but which gym would you rather sign up for? As soon as one big gym does it the others would have to follow just to keep up if it does well.

The co-op mode is still pretty interesting too though. It could lead to better camaraderie and feeling of belonging amongst gym goers. Any time you can get a group working towards a common goal I think you can accomplish some interesting things. I really like this idea and hope to be able to be a part of it someday.

Re: Scott Adams: Your Next Gym

#22

Post by patio11 » Mon, Sep 13, 2010, 5:45 PM UTC

imp wrote: post #18

patio11 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with regards to the business model, but the question is whether World of Weightlifting brings in sufficient new customers or decreases churn. My LTV to my gym is over $6k. If they convert the MMORPG crowd, they make money hats.

> they make money hats Where do you get these phrases? You're making me laugh at work :)

Money hats is a metric for profitability of video games created by Scott Jennings (Lum the Mad), but most phrases I use repeatedly are the result of trying out a lot of ways to say things and iterating on what gets smiles, laughs, or quoted back at me.

Re: Scott Adams: Your Next Gym

#23

Post by Kuiper » Mon, Sep 13, 2010, 5:46 PM UTC

feral wrote: post #19

Right. What he's describing is just like team rowing, or tug-o-war or a sport like american football, rugby, basketball, etc. We've had this technology for thousands of years.

What Scott Adams is proposing is a system that would allow individuals to compete in team rowing or tug-o-war competitions with individuals from other cities/countries/continents via the internet, which would be new technology. It's sort of like the transition from local multiplayer on a game console to online play. Home multiplayer video games have been around since the 80's, but it's not until recently that they've made their way online. The internet is a great tool because it ensures that you never suffer from a lack of available teammates/competitors. In the olden days, your ability to partipate was dependant on those around you having the same interest. Scott suggests setting up gyms for this kind of thing, but the beauty is that with the proper equipment, anyone would be able to compete from home. This could be a boon for people living in more remote/rural areas who want to compete in team athletic events.

Plus, there's all kinds of other neat things that you can have the tech do with regards to scoring, like having a system to scale/normalize scores so that a team of 10 adults can compete against a team of 10 children and come out with roughly a 50/50 win ratio.

Re: Scott Adams: Your Next Gym

#24

Post by georgecmu » Mon, Sep 13, 2010, 5:47 PM UTC

After hurting my knee in a downhill skiing accident, I went through two months of rehabilitation at the Sports Medicine Center. A lot of it had to do with specific weight training for the damaged knee's tendons, and some of the machines were hooked up as controllers to computers, where each exercise would be represented as a simple game.

To keep the story short, the games forced you to focus not on the number of repetitions or mass your were working with, but on the precise motion required for the exercise.

Re: Scott Adams: Your Next Gym

#25

Post by patio11 » Mon, Sep 13, 2010, 5:58 PM UTC

Poiesis wrote: post #17

No, no--what's coming first is farmville/foursquare style workouts and tracking. "Poiesis is King of the elliptical trainer!" "Achievement unlocked: 200 pound club" "New badge: Power Hour" "Most consecutive workout days: Poesis (42)" Add an iPhone app maybe for cardio workout tracking that's harder to cheat. This would be totally awesome. Maybe stick a leaderboard up on one of the big screens. Only problem is that it…

There are so many ways to improve, too. Leaderboards are an anti pattern in community design because they turn 99% of your customers into losers and losing is not fun. Instead, you either do leagues or publish individual successes within friend groups.

After you have achievements longevity awards are like taking candy from a very wealthy baby. (Only one more month until you get Bronze Boots of Buttkicking! Do not cancel now. Then next month, they are halfway up a new treadmill.)

Re: Scott Adams: Your Next Gym

#26

Post by 9oliYQjP » Mon, Sep 13, 2010, 5:58 PM UTC

swombat wrote: post #9

That's a completely stupid idea that will never work, as is obvious to anyone who's actually ever attempted to get people to do things. It fails on so many levels that it's not really even possible to write a concise, structured rebuttal of it. Off the top of my head: - Too weird, most normal people won't do it - Not everyone gives a damn about video games - Too much of a financial risk for gyms to sign up to such a…

As somebody who works out a lot, this idea does not appeal to me. I put myself in the shoes of people who attend aerobics and cycling classes (I strictly do free weights and the occasional cardio machine). And even then, I think this would be a turnoff to them. Yes, they like the encouragement of having an instructor and the pressure of keeping up with their classmates. But generally they would be turned off by having to compete against another team. It might sound sexist, but a lot of the people who attend classes at my gym are women and there is more of an air of the class being like schoolyard skipping rope than competitive team sport. The focus is on cooperation amongst the team itself, but not in an effort to beat some opponent.

Re: Scott Adams: Your Next Gym

#27

Post by janj » Mon, Sep 13, 2010, 6:01 PM UTC

I wonder what the balance is for gyms between active members and non active members. I imagine most successful gyms have a relatively high number of non active members, and if use increased then membership could actually decrease because of crowding issues. I would think the gym's motivation is to increase the number of memberships while keeping actual use low, restricting this kind of investment to expensive specialty gyms. But this idea is successful only if many gyms with many active members are involved.

I'm sure this kind of thing will eventually happen, just doesn't seem like the economic motivation is there. But of course I have no actual knowledge about this industry so my ramblings really aren't worth much.

Re: Scott Adams: Your Next Gym

#28

Post by lincolnq » Mon, Sep 13, 2010, 6:04 PM UTC

patio11 wrote: post #22

imp wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they make money hats Where do you get these phrases? You're making me laugh at work :)

Money hats is a metric for profitability of video games created by Scott Jennings (Lum the Mad), but most phrases I use repeatedly are the result of trying out a lot of ways to say things and iterating on what gets smiles, laughs, or quoted back at me.

relevant: hats made of money, from Penny Arcade (2000): http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2000/10/23/

Re: Scott Adams: Your Next Gym

#29

Post by DLWormwood » Mon, Sep 13, 2010, 6:05 PM UTC

Tangurena wrote: post #3

Oh great, World of WorkoutCraft.

The thing is… achievements are what ultimately caused me to quit WoW. It completely sapped out the enjoyment of the holiday events for me.

The current emphasis on achievements and worldwide leaderboards is discouraging for me. I recently took a stab at making an iOS game in an effort to get a development business underway, only for my game to be mostly ignored because I had no “itch to scratch” involving writing a game with such Darwinian mechanisms to drive community. (I’m an old school solo gamer.)

Re: Scott Adams: Your Next Gym

#30

Post by jcl » Mon, Sep 13, 2010, 6:06 PM UTC

patio11 wrote: post #10

My gym does just the MVP of this, where your RFID wristband gives you data persistence for workout results. Walk up to machine, swipe wristband, Good afternoon Mr. Mckenz lets try for 12 reps at 40kg today. ("Who ever heard of someone with a last name longer than six characters long? LOL" A segment of their clientele -- and most at my gym are north of forty -- love it to death. There is at least one seventy something…

I'm surprised there's no virtual pets involved. :)

The new Ford Fusion apparently has a virtual pet installed in the dashboard to encourage better driving habits. It would probably work just as well in an exercise machine, as a more-visible proxy for one's own fitness.