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Mossad 2018 challenge

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Re: Mossad 2018 challenge

#11

Post by briandear »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #4

Recall when the Mossad assassinated someone in a Dubai hotel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7d9KDysPbZ0 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Mahmoud_Al-Ma... The only reason I point this out is because many (most?) techies have a natural aversion to helping out this sort of thing. It's totally fine if you don't. But it's easy to forget the end result.

They killed the cofounder of the military wing of Hamas. Hardly an innocent. Making a statement like “assasinated a person in a hotel” makes it sound like they killed some tourist rather than a man responsible for countless violence. If they assasinated Osama Bin Laden, would that be ok? As a “techie,” I would be proud to have helped take out someone like Bin Laden but I would of course, not be happy if that tech were used to intentionally kill innocent people. Ironically, the man killed had no problem himself directing the deaths of innocent civilians. It’s the difference between killing a wolf attacking kids on a playground versus shooting a family dog in someone’s living room. The two situations aren’t morally equivalent at all.

The end result of the Hamas assassination was that a violent and dangerous person who led the killing of countless civilians is dead. So yes, let’s not forget the end result — a wolf was shot before he could attack again.

I am not going to comment on intelligence services in general, but the example you provide is ironically, a counter argument for the point you seem to be attempting. You seem to be suggesting that techies generally would want to work to preserve life rather than take it and, with the Dubai operation, that’s exactly what happened: lives were saved by taking down a dangerous man with a history of leading the killing of innocent people.

Re: Mossad 2018 challenge

#12

Post by IMTDb »

aerodog wrote: post #7

Knowing what we know about how shameless their government is about killing unarmed civilians, why on earth would any ethical human being support them? https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/03/israeli-forces-kill-3...

Using aljazeera a source of "news" for anything Israel is doing is a dubious as linking to bertibart as a reliable insider in the US democratic party.

Re: Mossad 2018 challenge

#13

Post by briandear »

Waterluvian wrote: post #10
ronreiter wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He is a murderer and a terrorist. If you murder people because they are Israeli and you think you can get away with it, think again.

This is the attitude that makes it hard for me to take Israel seriously. Like they have an inherent right to go after whoever wherever. It feels like a CIA / KGB learned trait. I think I'm most frustrated by the notion of other nations going to work in my country. You do you. But not in my yard, eh.

Ironically, that’s what makes it hard for me to take Hamas seriously — they feel like they can blow up a bus and yet if Israel responds, the “international” community has a conniption fit.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaffa_Road_bus_bombings

Re: Mossad 2018 challenge

#14

Post by simonh »

aerodog wrote: post #7

Knowing what we know about how shameless their government is about killing unarmed civilians, why on earth would any ethical human being support them? https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/03/israeli-forces-kill-3...

Are the people they're up against really all that morally superior?

I'm not making a whataboutist point, it's just that if you're picking a side you have to look at more than just one of them. So absolutely soldiers should be held accountable for their treatment of captives, and e.g. Israeli soldiers have been jailed for assaulting prisoners, but I don't see many Palestinians being jailed by their own administrative authority for killing Israeli civilians.

Neither side should be above criticism, but when it comes to actively supporting one side or the other you have to look at the record of both.

Re: Mossad 2018 challenge

#15

Post by placebo »

Waterluvian wrote: post #10
ronreiter wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He is a murderer and a terrorist. If you murder people because they are Israeli and you think you can get away with it, think again.

This is the attitude that makes it hard for me to take Israel seriously. Like they have an inherent right to go after whoever wherever. It feels like a CIA / KGB learned trait. I think I'm most frustrated by the notion of other nations going to work in my country. You do you. But not in my yard, eh.

I'm curious, how do you interpret the above as the "right to go after whoever wherever?"

Re: Mossad 2018 challenge

#16

Post by devilmoon »

IMTDb wrote: post #12
aerodog wrote: post #7

Knowing what we know about how shameless their government is about killing unarmed civilians, why on earth would any ethical human being support them? https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/03/israeli-forces-kill-3...

Using aljazeera a source of "news" for anything Israel is doing is a dubious as linking to bertibart as a reliable insider in the US democratic party.

You don't really need aljazeera to know that Israel isn't such a nice country when it comes to mowing down human lives because their god told them that's their promised land

Re: Mossad 2018 challenge

#17

Post by IIAOPSW »

aerodog wrote: post #7

Knowing what we know about how shameless their government is about killing unarmed civilians, why on earth would any ethical human being support them? https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/03/israeli-forces-kill-3...

option 1) you take the job. Bad things happen in the world with your help and you end up richer.

option 2) you take the high ground. Someone else takes the job. Bad things happen in the world and you don't end up richer.

What did we accomplish today?

Re: Mossad 2018 challenge

#19

Post by Mediterraneo10 »

devilmoon wrote: post #16
IMTDb wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using aljazeera a source of "news" for anything Israel is doing is a dubious as linking to bertibart as a reliable insider in the US democratic party.

You don't really need aljazeera to know that Israel isn't such a nice country when it comes to mowing down human lives because their god told them that's their promised land

> because their god told them that's their promised land

A substantial portion of the earliest Zionist settlers were atheists and a substantial portion of hawkish Israelis today are. The insistence on founding and maintaining a Jewish state in Israel is not overall theologically motivated.

Re: Mossad 2018 challenge

#20

Post by cocoablazing »

IIAOPSW wrote: post #17
aerodog wrote: post #7

Knowing what we know about how shameless their government is about killing unarmed civilians, why on earth would any ethical human being support them? https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/03/israeli-forces-kill-3...

option 1) you take the job. Bad things happen in the world with your help and you end up richer. option 2) you take the high ground. Someone else takes the job. Bad things happen in the world and you don't end up richer. What did we accomplish today?

1) You did a bad thing. 2) You didn't do a bad thing.
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