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The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

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Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#21
I don't want to name names but one YC company I interviewed at left me with the distinct impression that they talked a big game, just to get me to work on one of their (apparently) "strictly-hiring-related toy projects" as homework. Homework, "sure", except it: 1) integrated with a real system, 2) mirrored something they actually did, and 3) they would only agree to proceed if I signed an IP/work contract and accepted their (sorry, too small) payment of USD450 for the (not insignificant) project.

I pushed back at the contract, and asked them to ask their lawyer if that was really necessary. When they insisted on a contract for the homework project I pulled out of the process. It just felt so wrong.

The worst part, is not that they would seek some way to freelance a small part of their system, nor that they would actually use ideas from hiring interviews in their product -- but that (it seems) they would so blatantly lie to someone they professed to want to hire that this was homework, when in fact it was not. Even worse was the feeling of disrespect that they wanted to freelance part of their system for USD450, trying to abuse the hiring process/ talking a big game about offers, to unfairly lowball the price. Like they are a well funded, established, largish YC alum, at least they can afford to pay market. Anyway, everytime I see "XXXX is hiring a YYYY in ZZZZ" on here from them, I'm reminded. Feels good to vent.

Just sad. Anyway, I'm not going to name names because this is unwise to do that in a public forum.

Anyway, I only added the above anecdote after writing the following comment.

This is why Triplebyte is so good. You do a single technical interview ( after a quick online quiz ), then get fast tracked to final interviews at various YC / silicon valley startups.

Sure, maybe not everyone wants to work for a smallish startup. But some of their clients are 200+ people. So...it's not all the same.

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#22
I don't understand this development. In Germany, we've basically got full employment in the IT sector. Why would anyone waste their time with this? Just apply for the Job next door.

As an employer, hiring someone new is always a leap of faith. Might work out, might not. If it doesn't, dont feel bad to fire people again.

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#23
3 days of work is certainly an excessive commitment. But limiting the verbal interview to one hour then leaving the candidate with a a computer and a well defined problem that takes half a day to solve it's not unreasonable, in my opinion.

They have already committed that day to this interview, there is no abuse - show us you can solve problems and not give up after a couple of Google searches, like a good half of programmer-aspirants do.

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#24
post #17

I don't get it. The whole industry is complaining about not being able to hire developers, yet there seems to be some kind of competition who can come up with the most awkward hiring process. Requiring homework is a great way to deter the kind of people companies should be most interested in hiring: those who are not actively looking for a new job. I find this trend especially surprising considering that the U.S. has…

Just that firing someone is legal does not mean it is easy. Especially if you have been working closely with the said person for months. And then there are people who are very nice human beings but their performance just isn't good enough. Firing them is hard and pretty bad for team morale.

I'd much rather do that extra work during the hiring process than have to deal with a bad hire later.

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#25
Latest trend? Haven't we all gone through this before? Back in 2012 I did a "homework assignment" too, just to get an interview with a game studio. The task? Build a SOAP client and server that do some silly little thing, I don't even remember what. Basically, just something to prove competency. It took about an hour, mostly time I spent reading the manual for the programming language they requested. Trivial shit... WTF are people being assigned that takes multiple days? Ridiculous...

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#26
post #24
post #17

I don't get it. The whole industry is complaining about not being able to hire developers, yet there seems to be some kind of competition who can come up with the most awkward hiring process. Requiring homework is a great way to deter the kind of people companies should be most interested in hiring: those who are not actively looking for a new job. I find this trend especially surprising considering that the U.S. has…

Just that firing someone is legal does not mean it is easy. Especially if you have been working closely with the said person for months. And then there are people who are very nice human beings but their performance just isn't good enough. Firing them is hard and pretty bad for team morale. I'd much rather do that extra work during the hiring process than have to deal with a bad hire later.

Money where your mouth is; are you willing to pay for it? Would you pay the candidate a reasonable sum, certainly over a hundred Euros a day (after tax etc.) for their pre-interview homework? Given that the cost of a bad hire is orders of magnitude more than that, this seems like a really good deal for the company.

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#27
post #3

Can someone explain why we need: 1. A phone coding interview (Potentially another phone coding interview) 2. A homework 3. An onsite with 5 rounds Seriously, what does that additional tree traversal round prove?

Here's how it works in many companies:

Hiring manager: Hey recruitment team, I've read articles saying doesn't work very well, we should try . solves

Recruitment team: Sure thing, we'll start with a parallel run so we can see how results compare with

Hiring manager: We've run both for a few months now, should we stop doing ?

Recruitment team: Some hiring managers still like it, as it addresses . We don't see it as our job to second-guess them. You can spend your time and political capital convincing every other hiring manager, if you like?

Hiring manager: I'm awfully busy with things that are a better use of my time.

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#28
It makes sense to me, as long as it's somewhat related to the job context, so you can have a first impression. If it's directly contributing to them, of course they must pay. In any case this kind of work is a good practice, and is reusable, so applicants are losing anything

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#29

I don't want to name names but one YC company I interviewed at left me with the distinct impression that they talked a big game, just to get me to work on one of their (apparently) "strictly-hiring-related toy projects" as homework. Homework, "sure", except it: 1) integrated with a real system, 2) mirrored something they actually did, and 3) they would only agree to proceed if I signed an IP/work contract and accepte…

I have noticed a trend of not naming companies here. Is it against the rules? I fell that we should name and shame companies that are disrespectful of peoples time.

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#30

I don't want to name names but one YC company I interviewed at left me with the distinct impression that they talked a big game, just to get me to work on one of their (apparently) "strictly-hiring-related toy projects" as homework. Homework, "sure", except it: 1) integrated with a real system, 2) mirrored something they actually did, and 3) they would only agree to proceed if I signed an IP/work contract and accepte…

I don't want to pass judgement on your coding exercise, and it certainly seems fishy with the contract, however...

I would point out that on the hiring side, evaluating a submitted project in a way that can differentiate between good and great candidates, and that the reviewers can understand well enough to get the signal they need, is very difficult.

Because of this, I know several times we have asked candidates to build a simplified version of something that we have already built internally, where we understand the problem space deeply. We only ever do something we have already built, as that's the whole point, and we typically simplify it, although that might not be obvious from the outside. We also cap the time at 1-3 hours depending on the task as we care about evaluating the candidate, not getting a complete/usable/production ready solution, and so that it's not dependent on how much time a particular candidate can spend on the problem, which would introduce biases.

This isn't perfect, and we try not to do this, and to use problems that are obviously toy problems, but sometimes it's necessary.

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