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The Chinese Communist Party Is Setting Up Cells at Universities Across America

foreignpolicy.com

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Re: The Chinese Communist Party Is Setting Up Cells at Universities Across America

#11

Post by grizzles »

eveningcoffee wrote: post #10
grizzles wrote: post #6

Who cares? Conversation is a 2 way street. These groups could just as easily be used to introduce new ideas to the next generation of Chinese leaders.

Did you read the article? It is for Chinese only and it is under strict ideological control. It is also about sending a message. If you do not quack like a duck, you will get into trouble.

I did. If they are in the U.S. then they will be exposed to other ideas too. That's a good opportunity to show them the value of different ideas. I doubt they are prohibited from having non Chinese friends or reading on the U.S. internet.

An analogy is - there are plenty of undercover Mormons, Jews, etc who keep up appearances for their family's sake. They've found a different way that works for them, so why wouldn't these people?

tl;dr People are complex and if you are trying to control minds, often your efforts can backfire.

Re: The Chinese Communist Party Is Setting Up Cells at Universities Across America

#12

Post by JamesLeonis »

The tragedy of losing our own Communist (and Socialist) Party is how they could counterbalance the narrative of China. Imagine Chinese and American Communist students having a debate in public of these universities. How many disaffected Chinese could we swing our way? Regardless of your stance of Marx, ceding the entire argument ground to the CCP doesn't do us any favors.

Re: The Chinese Communist Party Is Setting Up Cells at Universities Across America

#13

Post by sterlind »

JamesLeonis wrote: post #12

The tragedy of losing our own Communist (and Socialist) Party is how they could counterbalance the narrative of China. Imagine Chinese and American Communist students having a debate in public of these universities. How many disaffected Chinese could we swing our way? Regardless of your stance of Marx, ceding the entire argument ground to the CCP doesn't do us any favors.

CPUSA was an actual communist party, while CCP's main ideology is Chinese corporate nationalism. I think engaging with CPUSA would most certainly take points off your social credit score back home.

Re: The Chinese Communist Party Is Setting Up Cells at Universities Across America

#14

Post by tabtab »

throwaway9d0 wrote: post #7
tabtab wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the US probably does the same in other countries.

You’re being downvoted because you wrote something true.

Indeed! :-) Remember when Germany caught the US bugging their headquarters? The President looked like a kid caught with his hand in the cookie jar.

Re: The Chinese Communist Party Is Setting Up Cells at Universities Across America

#15

Post by badosu »

grizzles wrote: post #11
eveningcoffee wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you read the article? It is for Chinese only and it is under strict ideological control. It is also about sending a message. If you do not quack like a duck, you will get into trouble.

I did. If they are in the U.S. then they will be exposed to other ideas too. That's a good opportunity to show them the value of different ideas. I doubt they are prohibited from having non Chinese friends or reading on the U.S. internet. An analogy is - there are plenty of undercover Mormons, Jews, etc who keep up appearances for their family's sake. They've found a different way that works for them, so why wouldn't…

> tl;dr People are complex and if you are trying to control minds, often your efforts can backfire.

I believe in that, but I also think you're underestimating the effectiveness of social control when done competently, which IMO is what's China's doing.

You don't need to control people's minds, just their social acceptance and livelihood guarantee.

Re: The Chinese Communist Party Is Setting Up Cells at Universities Across America

#16

Post by malandrew »

sterlind wrote: post #13
JamesLeonis wrote: post #12

The tragedy of losing our own Communist (and Socialist) Party is how they could counterbalance the narrative of China. Imagine Chinese and American Communist students having a debate in public of these universities. How many disaffected Chinese could we swing our way? Regardless of your stance of Marx, ceding the entire argument ground to the CCP doesn't do us any favors.

CPUSA was an actual communist party, while CCP's main ideology is Chinese corporate nationalism. I think engaging with CPUSA would most certainly take points off your social credit score back home.

This. The CCP is communist in name only (and maybe mechanisms of social control). There isn't much about China that is communist these days. I think China would more accurately be considered authoritarian capitalist and nationalist. China is only socialist in the same ways that Nazi Germany was socialist.

Re: The Chinese Communist Party Is Setting Up Cells at Universities Across America

#17

Post by johnzim »

malandrew wrote: post #16
sterlind wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CPUSA was an actual communist party, while CCP's main ideology is Chinese corporate nationalism. I think engaging with CPUSA would most certainly take points off your social credit score back home.

This. The CCP is communist in name only (and maybe mechanisms of social control). There isn't much about China that is communist these days. I think China would more accurately be considered authoritarian capitalist and nationalist. China is only socialist in the same ways that Nazi Germany was socialist.

They gave it a solid try and only gave up after the inevitable famine, forced labour camps, poverty and imprisonment of political opposition. A solid display of Marxist government.

Then they worked out they could still have most of that without the widespread poverty with fascism!

Re: The Chinese Communist Party Is Setting Up Cells at Universities Across America

#18

Post by yostrovs »

johnzim wrote: post #17
malandrew wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. The CCP is communist in name only (and maybe mechanisms of social control). There isn't much about China that is communist these days. I think China would more accurately be considered authoritarian capitalist and nationalist. China is only socialist in the same ways that Nazi Germany was socialist.

They gave it a solid try and only gave up after the inevitable famine, forced labour camps, poverty and imprisonment of political opposition. A solid display of Marxist government. Then they worked out they could still have most of that without the widespread poverty with fascism!

Exactly. In any case, ask a Communist where Communism had been tried and the answer will be: nowhere. True Communists see it like true Christians see heaven. It exists because book says so, but getting there gets stopped by evil others.

Re: The Chinese Communist Party Is Setting Up Cells at Universities Across America

#19

Post by iamnothere »

Not that I approve of China's approach here, but the use of the word "cells" in the title is blatant scaremongering.

Consider a hypothetical title like "The Democratic Party Is Setting Up Cells in Alabama" and it becomes more obvious.

Re: The Chinese Communist Party Is Setting Up Cells at Universities Across America

#20

Post by alistoriv »

johnzim wrote: post #17
malandrew wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. The CCP is communist in name only (and maybe mechanisms of social control). There isn't much about China that is communist these days. I think China would more accurately be considered authoritarian capitalist and nationalist. China is only socialist in the same ways that Nazi Germany was socialist.

They gave it a solid try and only gave up after the inevitable famine, forced labour camps, poverty and imprisonment of political opposition. A solid display of Marxist government. Then they worked out they could still have most of that without the widespread poverty with fascism!

Yeah, almost two decades after the famine. And were the Gang of Four not imprisoned political opposition?

Your comment reminds me of the famous Mao quote "No investigation, no right to speak."

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