California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions • Hacker News Board

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#201

Post by rconti » Thu, Apr 19, 2018, 2:09 AM UTC

Diederich wrote: post #67

ebikelaw wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alabama produces a million cars a year, in factories that are actually high-tech unlike Tesla’s. You think they are clamoring to bring in an automaker struggling to produce a handful of cars with double the industry injury rate?

> actually high-tech unlike Tesla’s citation needed.

Having toured the Tesla plant a few months after touring BMW in Munich, they're worlds apart. I also toured the Fremont plant back in the NUMMI days.

That said, I don't think it's necessarily a huge strike against Tesla; they're at a different scale and at a different stage in the life of the company.

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#202

Post by rconti » Thu, Apr 19, 2018, 2:11 AM UTC

IBM wrote: post #84

It's really surprising to me see posts critical of Tesla highly upvoted on HN these days. It tells me the narrative around Tesla is finally starting to break down, and naturally the stock price has declined from its highs as well. A few years ago most of the comments here would have been much more sycophantic. It's very refreshing to see. edit: Ok maybe it's not completely gone yet.

You seem to have as much of an agenda as the folks you're decrying.

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#203

Post by coredog64 » Thu, Apr 19, 2018, 2:16 AM UTC

gniv wrote: post #199

danso wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what are your feelings about Theranos, another hugely visionary/envelope-pushing Palo Alto company (valued as high as $9 billion) that was investigated by an East Coast reporter who has no medical, bioengineering, or entrepreneurial experience? https://www.propublica.org/podcast/how-a-reporter-pierced-th...

I thought about this. I don't think the comparison is correct. Theranos was not delivering what was promising product-wise. Tesla is accused of hiding injuries. I don't know the truth here, but I would be surprised if the other car companies are behaving better. That was my point: How do these reporters know that the other factories do not underreport injuries the same way? If they have never done this before, they w…

Probably because many other car companies have unions that hold them accountable.

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#204

Post by trimbo » Thu, Apr 19, 2018, 2:17 AM UTC

usaphp wrote: post #62

> It was difficult to find employees to go on the record. Like a lot of tech companies in Silicon Valley, workers signed non-disclosure agreements. NDAs usually are put in place so workers don't share any trade secrets or proprietary technology. So some workers were scared to talk to us because of this NDA they sign for working at Tesla. Damn, so workers were afraid to speak up and spread the injury info because they…

> I think somebody needs to do something about this NDA situation, it’s getting out of control in SV

Jimmy John's used to have their sandwich-making employees sign non-competes. They buckled on this since then, but this article details it with some other policy examples:

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/15/upshot/when-the-guy-makin...

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#205

Post by coredog64 » Thu, Apr 19, 2018, 2:20 AM UTC

DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #185

dragonwriter wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The real problem for Tesla is that their destiny is probably to be the next BMW - a good midrange luxury car maker Tesla doesn't do well at the things a non-novelty luxury car maker needs to do well, and EVs are only luxury cars now due to novelty.

I wouldn’t call the Nissan Leaf or GM Bolt+Volt luxury cars at any stretch - thought I appreciate they’re priced $10k more than they should be. I’m still convinced GM and BMW are deliberately trying to delay, if not sabotage, the mass adoption of BEV cars.

You are not GM’s customer, dealerships are. If dealers don’t want to sell BEVs (for whatever reason) GM can’t do much.

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#206

Post by djur » Thu, Apr 19, 2018, 2:40 AM UTC

gniv wrote: post #199

danso wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what are your feelings about Theranos, another hugely visionary/envelope-pushing Palo Alto company (valued as high as $9 billion) that was investigated by an East Coast reporter who has no medical, bioengineering, or entrepreneurial experience? https://www.propublica.org/podcast/how-a-reporter-pierced-th...

I thought about this. I don't think the comparison is correct. Theranos was not delivering what was promising product-wise. Tesla is accused of hiding injuries. I don't know the truth here, but I would be surprised if the other car companies are behaving better. That was my point: How do these reporters know that the other factories do not underreport injuries the same way? If they have never done this before, they w…

Are you suggesting that they shouldn't investigate Tesla unless they also investigate all other car manufacturers?

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#207

Post by _rpd » Thu, Apr 19, 2018, 2:53 AM UTC

dollar wrote: post #90

This is why you shouldn’t put your business in California. There’s a legion of highly-paid bureaucrats who have nothing, I mean nothing, better to do than screw with you.

It was a gamble when he was aiming for the ultra-high automation route - but now that he is reverting to the big labor route, it seems positively unwise.

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#208

Post by bdcravens » Thu, Apr 19, 2018, 3:03 AM UTC

gniv wrote: post #197

gniv wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From that thread: > Have you investigated any other auto manufacturer? > (ajpreports) I haven't nor has Will. But maybe that's our next venture! That diminishes their credibility a lot in my mind. This is a type of investigation that should be done by people with experience in the area. Especially on a company that pushes the envelope like Tesla.

Five people downvoted but only one replied. I would appreciate a line explaining, since I didn't think my opinion was so controversial.

I think in general HN finds any idea that Tesla should get a free pass distasteful.

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#209

Post by lovich » Thu, Apr 19, 2018, 3:05 AM UTC

briandear wrote: post #128

lovich wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The company could just improve the situation enough that the workers don't want to unionize. Losing your agility isn't a good enough argument to convince people to not negotiate a better situation for themselves when you are literally destroying their bodies. It's not even like they are acting the same as the rest of the industry. Directly in the article it says that they have much higher injury rates than the rest o…

They are saying Tesla isn’t reporting injuries and then they say Tesla has higher injuries? If they aren’t being reported, then what’s the source of that claim? Do we know for a fact that other companies aren’t also (allegedly) underreporting? Reporting about Ford or GM is far less sexy than Tesla, so there could be less incentive.

Both of those statements can be true. They can have a higher injury rate _and_ be misclassifying injuries to hide the fact that it's even higher than what is known.

Regardless though, employees fight for unions in the US only when it's become really bad. There's such a baseline hatred of unions that you can't casually get one going here just by saying you might be able to get more money. Tesla might not have the capital to impeove things directly but they could at least hand out more equity to the employees so that their incentives aligned.

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#210

Post by avs733 » Thu, Apr 19, 2018, 3:40 AM UTC

kistaro wrote: post #55

matte_black wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bet. I see this frequently in companies with high automation dependency. If your automation isn’t working correctly you accelerate full speed into a brick wall.

That's Toyota, we're talking about Tesla.

This is absolutely and utterly false. Toyota's manufacturing is moving in almost the exact opposite direction of Tesla's and it is working much better.