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California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

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Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#191

Post by telchar »

Animats wrote: post #129

The real problem for Tesla is that their destiny is probably to be the next BMW - a good midrange luxury car maker, about #12 in the world on volume. That would be fine except for the excessive market cap. Tesla's market cap exceeded GM's at one point. The stock has to come down a lot if Tesla ends up at BMW's scale. Even with Tesla's most optimistic production estimates, Tesla will make far fewer cars than BMW in th…

BMW's market cap exceeds GM's today, so that all seems to check out. Tesla's valuation assumed high future value; their stock could stay stagnant as they grow to BMW production numbers and they'd be doing great. Just growing into their shoes.

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#192

Post by taneq »

riffraff wrote: post #104
sf_rob wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Musk in an interview last week said as much (re: automation). He claims that the Model 3 line was over-automated so now they're tearing out sections for rework while doing more with the labor on hand. (Although they're about to also install new sections from their German automation subsidiary so it goes both ways).

what does "over automated" mean?

"not working"

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#193

Post by danso »

briandear wrote: post #85
usaphp wrote: post #62

> It was difficult to find employees to go on the record. Like a lot of tech companies in Silicon Valley, workers signed non-disclosure agreements. NDAs usually are put in place so workers don't share any trade secrets or proprietary technology. So some workers were scared to talk to us because of this NDA they sign for working at Tesla. Damn, so workers were afraid to speak up and spread the injury info because they…

Is it possible there wasn’t anything to talk about? We are assuming that they had something to say but didn’t because of an NDA, but are we considering that they might not have anything to say? If something illegal is happening, California law provides that NDAs are not enforceable when in conjunction with some criminal acts. Furthermore, NDAs can’t protect against a witness being subpoenaed or being required to test…

The assertion in the excerpt is not that people didn't have anything to say. It's that the anonymous sources declined to put their name to their claims:

> It was difficult to find employees to go on the record.

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#194

Post by aphextron »

Animats wrote: post #129

The real problem for Tesla is that their destiny is probably to be the next BMW - a good midrange luxury car maker, about #12 in the world on volume. That would be fine except for the excessive market cap. Tesla's market cap exceeded GM's at one point. The stock has to come down a lot if Tesla ends up at BMW's scale. Even with Tesla's most optimistic production estimates, Tesla will make far fewer cars than BMW in th…

>The real problem for Tesla is that their destiny is probably to be the next BMW - a good midrange luxury car maker, about #12 in the world on volume

I think this is dead on. People are expecting Tesla to be the GM of EV's but that's never going to happen. GM will be the GM of EV's. Bolt and Nissan Leaf have both far outsold all Tesla models combined, and that's not even a fraction of the worldwide EV fleet that exists now. There are over a dozen competitors to Model 3 at this point.

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#195

Post by aphextron »

DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #185
dragonwriter wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The real problem for Tesla is that their destiny is probably to be the next BMW - a good midrange luxury car maker Tesla doesn't do well at the things a non-novelty luxury car maker needs to do well, and EVs are only luxury cars now due to novelty.

I wouldn’t call the Nissan Leaf or GM Bolt+Volt luxury cars at any stretch - thought I appreciate they’re priced $10k more than they should be. I’m still convinced GM and BMW are deliberately trying to delay, if not sabotage, the mass adoption of BEV cars.

>I wouldn’t call the Nissan Leaf or GM Bolt+Volt luxury cars at any stretch - thought I appreciate they’re priced $10k more than they should be.

Agreed. I own a Leaf and absolutely love it to death, but it just is not a $35,000 car. I'd have never bought mine for full MSRP, even with all the money in the world. However once these cheap little EV's with 20-30kWh batteries drop to the range of ~$15k new (which I have no doubt will be within 5 years, based on battery price forecasts) it's going to become a no-brainer for most urban people.

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#196

Post by ben_jones »

mschuster91 wrote: post #80
usaphp wrote: post #62

> It was difficult to find employees to go on the record. Like a lot of tech companies in Silicon Valley, workers signed non-disclosure agreements. NDAs usually are put in place so workers don't share any trade secrets or proprietary technology. So some workers were scared to talk to us because of this NDA they sign for working at Tesla. Damn, so workers were afraid to speak up and spread the injury info because they…

> I think somebody needs to do something about this NDA situation, it’s getting out of control in SV Not just in SV, it's all over the world. IMHO the right of protection for whistleblowers should be made a basic human right, in order to protect people worldwide who are afraid to speak out.

Is there any way we can fine gross negligence by the executives responsible for these conditions and hand them to the whistleblower(s) most responsible for it coming to light?

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#197

Post by gniv »

gniv wrote: post #139
danso wrote: post #2

Related: the two Reveal reporters who worked on the investigation are currently doing an IAMA: https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/8d7khd/were_two_inves...

From that thread: > Have you investigated any other auto manufacturer? > (ajpreports) I haven't nor has Will. But maybe that's our next venture! That diminishes their credibility a lot in my mind. This is a type of investigation that should be done by people with experience in the area. Especially on a company that pushes the envelope like Tesla.

Five people downvoted but only one replied. I would appreciate a line explaining, since I didn't think my opinion was so controversial.

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#198

Post by exolymph »

aphextron wrote: post #194
Animats wrote: post #129

The real problem for Tesla is that their destiny is probably to be the next BMW - a good midrange luxury car maker, about #12 in the world on volume. That would be fine except for the excessive market cap. Tesla's market cap exceeded GM's at one point. The stock has to come down a lot if Tesla ends up at BMW's scale. Even with Tesla's most optimistic production estimates, Tesla will make far fewer cars than BMW in th…

>The real problem for Tesla is that their destiny is probably to be the next BMW - a good midrange luxury car maker, about #12 in the world on volume I think this is dead on. People are expecting Tesla to be the GM of EV's but that's never going to happen. GM will be the GM of EV's. Bolt and Nissan Leaf have both far outsold all Tesla models combined, and that's not even a fraction of the worldwide EV fleet that exis…

> Bolt and Nissan Leaf have both far outsold all Tesla models combined, and that's not even a fraction of the worldwide EV fleet that exists now.

And Android phones are for more numerous than iPhones. My point here is just that pure number of units sold does not determine a company's value.

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#199

Post by gniv »

danso wrote: post #147
gniv wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From that thread: > Have you investigated any other auto manufacturer? > (ajpreports) I haven't nor has Will. But maybe that's our next venture! That diminishes their credibility a lot in my mind. This is a type of investigation that should be done by people with experience in the area. Especially on a company that pushes the envelope like Tesla.

So what are your feelings about Theranos, another hugely visionary/envelope-pushing Palo Alto company (valued as high as $9 billion) that was investigated by an East Coast reporter who has no medical, bioengineering, or entrepreneurial experience? https://www.propublica.org/podcast/how-a-reporter-pierced-th...

I thought about this. I don't think the comparison is correct. Theranos was not delivering what was promising product-wise. Tesla is accused of hiding injuries.

I don't know the truth here, but I would be surprised if the other car companies are behaving better. That was my point: How do these reporters know that the other factories do not underreport injuries the same way? If they have never done this before, they wouldn't know. So it appears as if they picked on Tesla.

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#200

Post by Retric »

s73v3r_ wrote: post #178
Retric wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a word, Yes. The median salary in Alabama is $41,657, these would be high paying jobs relatively speaking. The only upside is their stated unemployment rate is sitting around 3.5%.

Would they be? Wouldn't Tesla just pay market rates in Alabama for factory work?

Existing, Alabama automotive manufacturing jobs are fairly high paying, so I assume Tesla would be forced to offer similar compensation.
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