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California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

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Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#141

Post by rdiddly »

tntn wrote: post #38
rdiddly wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If everybody hates you, you are NOT doing something right. If everybody loves you, then you're doing it right, and in fact you barely even have to do anything because everybody's helping you.

Listen up, kids! Always do what everyone else is doing, never make anyone mad, always choose the popular path. /s It seems like everything worth doing nowadays results in someone hating you.

I'm not talking high school here, I'm talking about real life. Popularity and conformity are orthogonal. In the early stages of doing something, they can be somewhat opposed, so you'd be partly right in that case. But you push through that and don't complain, and wait and see what people think whom you've actually managed to help.

The most worthy path is the one that helps the most people. Not coincidentally, each of those people you've helped, becomes a supporter of yours, in some capacity. You become popular. So the worthy path ends up being the popular path.

That doesn't mean the popular path is always the worthy path. People can become popular for really stupid reasons and without really helping anybody. I actually think Musk is such a person; I literally don't think any of his projects are "worth doing" and you are just gonna have to grant me my opinion there. So if I'm not impressed with his outlandish narcissistic persecution-fantasy of extremist groups being out to get him, it's not because he's doing something worth doing, it's because he's NOT.

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#142

Post by dabockster »

makecheck wrote: post #97
briandear wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

California law DOES protect whistleblowers. The law is extremely clear. Those laws even provide for damages due to retailiation.

Even in that situation, if you’re a paycheck-to-paycheck worker, how much boat-rocking can you endure? On some theoretical future date according to the law you can get back at your employer, great: in the meantime, maybe you got fired and now you can’t feed yourself? We’ve seen plenty of companies that shrug off large fines and such. Whatever the rules, it has to reach the point of being seriously unprofitable to dis…

> if you’re a paycheck-to-paycheck worker, how much boat-rocking can you endure?

As someone who grew up in a paycheck-to-paycheck household, you generally can't endure too much boat rocking. The ability to whistleblow takes a huge hit to your pocketbooks. If you don't have a pocketbook to begin with, it can be an extreme hardship.

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#143

Post by komali2 »

mabufo wrote: post #60
komali2 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With respect to you and your friend, I'm automatically skeptical of stories like this. We're on the internet, after all. Has your friend spoken to news agencies about this? Why not, if he/she hasn't? Surely any of the major news agencies would be watering at the mouth for a story like this.

What are you skeptical about? That this person's friend is actually injured? That it happened because of tesla? People get injured at work. Maybe not where YOU work, but it absolutely happens. Also, the subtext of your comment - that this person OF COURSE would have contacted a news organization if their claim was legitimate is frankly very weird.

I am skeptical by default of anything on the internet posted on forums with nothing more than an email requirement.

I voice this skepticism because as a hobby I lie on reddit profusely and then track this misinformation, sometimes for years later.

I've seen unfactual "memes" spread across reddit like wildfire, such as "eating honey prevents allergies." It's often traceable to a single sub-tree comment in a single popular comment on a popular AskReddit thread.

I think people should be more skeptical on the internet, and I think the burden of proof for stories such as the one we're discussing should be higher, considering the internet is being weaponized for psyops, state-state information war, and corporate information war.

EDIT: By the way, I think the fact that you are challenging me on this is good, because you are displaying more empathy than me. You're taking "best possible view" of the OP and I personally believe that makes you a better internet person than me. (I promise I'm fun at meatspace parties)

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#144

Post by justin66 »

Animats wrote: post #129

The real problem for Tesla is that their destiny is probably to be the next BMW - a good midrange luxury car maker, about #12 in the world on volume. That would be fine except for the excessive market cap. Tesla's market cap exceeded GM's at one point. The stock has to come down a lot if Tesla ends up at BMW's scale. Even with Tesla's most optimistic production estimates, Tesla will make far fewer cars than BMW in th…

The market cap is a bit of a mystery, but they've got some options for making money even if they stay around BMW levels in terms of auto production volume. There's no reason they can't compete well against in the automotive space against LG Chem, who makes batteries for cars like the Nissan Leaf and makes batteries, the entire powertrain, and the infotainment system for the Chevy Bolt. In the event their autonomous tech is ever any good, they could sell that. (today they could offer a steep discount and just sell big microprocessor-controlled guillotines or something)

Superior tech can really kill Tesla, though, if they don't get with it. Little cylindrical batteries aren't necessarily the future in that space, it is definitely not a given that their autonomous tech will be a big winner, and BMW's inexpensive carbon fiber is a thing of awe and wonder that Tesla has no answer for. And there's always the outside chance that Toyota is onto something about fuel cells...

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#145

Post by komali2 »

trhway wrote: post #73
komali2 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With respect to you and your friend, I'm automatically skeptical of stories like this. We're on the internet, after all. Has your friend spoken to news agencies about this? Why not, if he/she hasn't? Surely any of the major news agencies would be watering at the mouth for a story like this.

well, i second his story. I know a guy who got serious issues with his shoulder from working at Tesla. He is low income, large family so no skills/time/resources to pursue his case (his description was along the lines of Tesla just refusing to pay)

I have sympathy for people who are abused by companies against whom they stand no legal chance to fight, because I've been in their shoes.

But to you, I have to say the same to the OP: The requirement to post on this board is an email address.

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#146

Post by [deleted] »

olefoo wrote: post #140
freeone3000 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"even" Microsoft? Microsoft, home of the individual office, 8-hour workday, #7 in Fortune's Best Places to Work? There's a lot to dislike about bigcorps, but the working environment isn't one of them.

That's for blue-badge people. Temps + Contractors... not so much.

[deleted]

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#147

Post by danso »

gniv wrote: post #139
danso wrote: post #2

Related: the two Reveal reporters who worked on the investigation are currently doing an IAMA: https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/8d7khd/were_two_inves...

From that thread: > Have you investigated any other auto manufacturer? > (ajpreports) I haven't nor has Will. But maybe that's our next venture! That diminishes their credibility a lot in my mind. This is a type of investigation that should be done by people with experience in the area. Especially on a company that pushes the envelope like Tesla.

So what are your feelings about Theranos, another hugely visionary/envelope-pushing Palo Alto company (valued as high as $9 billion) that was investigated by an East Coast reporter who has no medical, bioengineering, or entrepreneurial experience?

https://www.propublica.org/podcast/how-a-reporter-pierced-th...

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#148

Post by josefresco »

StudentStuff wrote: post #49
komali2 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With respect to you and your friend, I'm automatically skeptical of stories like this. We're on the internet, after all. Has your friend spoken to news agencies about this? Why not, if he/she hasn't? Surely any of the major news agencies would be watering at the mouth for a story like this.

Huh? There are articles every week about injured workers at Tesla getting screwed over, its a core reason why the workers are attempting to unionize. Someone needs to stand up to Tesla and protect injured workers. Take a look for yourself: https://www.qwant.com/?q=tesla%20workers&t=news

> There are articles every week

I looked, it's an exaggeration to say every week.

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#149

Post by somethingwitty1 »

filoleg wrote: post #92
freeone3000 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"even" Microsoft? Microsoft, home of the individual office, 8-hour workday, #7 in Fortune's Best Places to Work? There's a lot to dislike about bigcorps, but the working environment isn't one of them.

Yeah, have to agree here. From personal observations, as well as other people I know who work there, MSFT work/life balance is hard to beat. Ofc it varies by team, so I can only talk about what I have personally encountered

Based on the same type of anecdotal evidence, I have the complete opposite view. I've not met anyone that has enjoyed their time at Microsoft. They all talk about the awful work situation, terrible management practices and the backstabbing politics to the point you can't trust your own co-workers.

With all that said, the reality is that you can't take a single brush and paint companies that have so many employees with it. The experience varies very widely on which part of the company they are in.

I'm sure parts of Microsoft are wonderful to work at. Just like I'm sure parts of Amazon are wonderful to work at (they have numerous awards as well indicating this: #1 by LinkedIn this year, for example). I wish we'd stop taking articles that point out the experiences of a couple people to mean that is the situation at the company. Report the full story, not click-bait articles.

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#150

Post by debacle »

Animats wrote: post #129

The real problem for Tesla is that their destiny is probably to be the next BMW - a good midrange luxury car maker, about #12 in the world on volume. That would be fine except for the excessive market cap. Tesla's market cap exceeded GM's at one point. The stock has to come down a lot if Tesla ends up at BMW's scale. Even with Tesla's most optimistic production estimates, Tesla will make far fewer cars than BMW in th…

I agree with your first paragraph, but I don't think it's fair to compare Tesla to Uber and Twitter.
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