What Dockless Bikes and Scooters Are Exposing • Hacker News Board

Re: What Dockless Bikes and Scooters Are Exposing

#11

Post by Finnucane » Wed, Apr 18, 2018, 9:06 PM UTC

Lionsion wrote: post #3

> Dockless bikes and scooters are not actually the problem. > For decades now, cars have gotten the royal treatment. Users were able to pick up their cars and drop them off anywhere in the city. It was simply expected that anywhere one goes in a city, one could be guaranteed a free, giant space to park one’s private 4000 pound box, no questions asked. Sure, in some dense areas, payment is now required. Yet private ve…

In NYC, there were a few fights over docked bike rentals. For example: http://gothamist.com/2013/04/30/west_village_nimbys_file_fut...

But even for regular bikes, it can be an issue when there is not enough parking. Here in Cambridge, over the last few years, the city has installed a fairly large number of parking rings for locking up bikes, and it still can't keep up. And don't even get me started on parking lots at supermarkets, etc., that don't have any racks or have crappy racks made for kids' bikes.

Re: What Dockless Bikes and Scooters Are Exposing

#12

Post by analog31 » Wed, Apr 18, 2018, 9:08 PM UTC

In my view, when bike parking becomes a problem in urban areas, cities do take steps towards regulating it. In my locale, there are numerous places where I've seen little signs forbidding bike parking, such as trees and hand railings. I don't know if these signs are backed up by real ordinances or what, but it does seem to point to a problem that's interesting enough for somebody to have addressed it. The nearby college used to be laissez faire about gas scooters, and now those have designated parking spaces and registration tags.

One feature of the system for enforcing parking ordinances, is that if your car is illegally parked, you're on the hook. Your license plate is tied to your identity, and you will be found. Even rentals or shares could have a way to identify the most recent user, otherwise the rental company has to eat the fine. With some random bike or scooter, not so easy, if there is not some kind of enforced numbering system.

I'm also guessing that with things such as bikes that are cheap enough (e.g., bikes and scooters), a growth strategy for a start-up is to address availability and ease of use first, and deal with cleaning up their mess later. Move fast and break things.

I'm an avid cyclist and cycling advocate, so I'd love to see bike sharing thrive, but I'm not brimming with great ideas.

Re: What Dockless Bikes and Scooters Are Exposing

#13

Post by burlesona » Wed, Apr 18, 2018, 9:09 PM UTC

hapless wrote: post #2

If Hertz or Avis attempted to use public space to park their inventory, local residents and city officials would pitch a fit. Public parking exists for the benefit of the public at large, not as a cost-saving measure for rental firms. The same is true of bicycles. You can store your private bicycle almost anywhere you like in public. But city fathers will naturally take a dim view of a business using that public spac…

Cities also force all property owners to provide many “private” parking spaces for the use of whoever’s car may need a place to sit. The space they take up generally makes life worse for all other users of the street. The nuisance of these little scooters is trivial in comparison.

Re: What Dockless Bikes and Scooters Are Exposing

#14

Post by burlesona » Wed, Apr 18, 2018, 9:14 PM UTC

From the article: “If cities allow, and mandate that we be able to park cars everywhere, why shouldn’t bikes have the same convenience, especially considering they require 10 times less space than cars and offer the enormous efficiency, environmental, cost, and health benefits listed above?”

Alternatively we could drop the entitlement to drive and park cars everywhere and the regulations forcing that choice on the country.

But either way, I’m all for bikes and scooters etc. getting the same benefit that cars get.

Re: What Dockless Bikes and Scooters Are Exposing

#15

Post by btrettel » Wed, Apr 18, 2018, 9:21 PM UTC

Finnucane wrote: post #11

Lionsion wrote: post #3

> Dockless bikes and scooters are not actually the problem. > For decades now, cars have gotten the royal treatment. Users were able to pick up their cars and drop them off anywhere in the city. It was simply expected that anywhere one goes in a city, one could be guaranteed a free, giant space to park one’s private 4000 pound box, no questions asked. Sure, in some dense areas, payment is now required. Yet private ve…

In NYC, there were a few fights over docked bike rentals. For example: http://gothamist.com/2013/04/30/west_village_nimbys_file_fut... But even for regular bikes, it can be an issue when there is not enough parking. Here in Cambridge, over the last few years, the city has installed a fairly large number of parking rings for locking up bikes, and it still can't keep up. And don't even get me started on parking lots at…

The terrible quality bike racks are a major problem. Thanks for pointing this problem out.

I'm particularly irritated by racks which are so close to buildings that they can only be used at half capacity. Whoever installed them obviously has no idea how they are used.

In Austin, many bike racks also are coated in bird poop, though I'm not sure what can be done about this aside from regularly cleaning the racks. I never ran into this problem anywhere else.

Re: What Dockless Bikes and Scooters Are Exposing

#16

Post by IAmEveryone » Wed, Apr 18, 2018, 9:25 PM UTC

Lionsion wrote: post #3

> Dockless bikes and scooters are not actually the problem. > For decades now, cars have gotten the royal treatment. Users were able to pick up their cars and drop them off anywhere in the city. It was simply expected that anywhere one goes in a city, one could be guaranteed a free, giant space to park one’s private 4000 pound box, no questions asked. Sure, in some dense areas, payment is now required. Yet private ve…

Sure, let's devote two lanes on every road to bike parking and I will never again leave a bike in unmarked spaces.

Add two lanes for riding the bike and I'll also stop interfering with car traffic.

Re: What Dockless Bikes and Scooters Are Exposing

#17

Post by sebleon » Wed, Apr 18, 2018, 9:27 PM UTC

> One quick fix: designate one car parking stop near every street corner as drop-off spots for dockless lightweight EVs. Problem solved.

Yes, this seems like an efficient and practical solution. Personally very happy to see how quickly people have begun adopting alternative transportation options, need for cars is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Re: What Dockless Bikes and Scooters Are Exposing

#18

Post by blang » Wed, Apr 18, 2018, 9:30 PM UTC

hapless wrote: post #2

If Hertz or Avis attempted to use public space to park their inventory, local residents and city officials would pitch a fit. Public parking exists for the benefit of the public at large, not as a cost-saving measure for rental firms. The same is true of bicycles. You can store your private bicycle almost anywhere you like in public. But city fathers will naturally take a dim view of a business using that public spac…

Car2Go does this, well sort of. In Seattle the company pays about $1300 [1] per car per year for parking, which includes skipping metered parking, which could come to a pretty large subsidy

[1] https://www.seattletimes.com/business/car2go-a-handy-option-...

Re: What Dockless Bikes and Scooters Are Exposing

#19

Post by the-pigeon » Wed, Apr 18, 2018, 9:32 PM UTC

burlesona wrote: post #14

From the article: “If cities allow, and mandate that we be able to park cars everywhere, why shouldn’t bikes have the same convenience, especially considering they require 10 times less space than cars and offer the enormous efficiency, environmental, cost, and health benefits listed above?” Alternatively we could drop the entitlement to drive and park cars everywhere and the regulations forcing that choice on the co…

> entitlement to drive and park cars everywhere

Most places in the US at least are not very livable without a car. You majorly hurt commerce and people's quality of life by removing vehicles without completely changing the layout of cities to make them work with other options.

Not that we shouldn't pursue those sorts of changes but that thinking of it as "entitlement" is shallow and not constructive. The entire system was engineered around the car. To remove the car you have to reengineer the system.

Re: What Dockless Bikes and Scooters Are Exposing

#20

Post by CydeWeys » Wed, Apr 18, 2018, 9:36 PM UTC

analog31 wrote: post #12

In my view, when bike parking becomes a problem in urban areas, cities do take steps towards regulating it. In my locale, there are numerous places where I've seen little signs forbidding bike parking, such as trees and hand railings. I don't know if these signs are backed up by real ordinances or what, but it does seem to point to a problem that's interesting enough for somebody to have addressed it. The nearby coll…

One obvious solution would be to add more bike parking. Bike parking is rare in most cities, which is why you end up with people locking their bikes to poles, fences, trees, benches, and anything else available.

It's amazing how much urban space we're willing to dedicate to cars in the way of streets and parking (most of it free!), and yet bicycle parking is often a rarity.