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California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

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Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#111

Post by leeoniya »

netsec_burn wrote: post #102
IBM wrote: post #84

It's really surprising to me see posts critical of Tesla highly upvoted on HN these days. It tells me the narrative around Tesla is finally starting to break down, and naturally the stock price has declined from its highs as well. A few years ago most of the comments here would have been much more sycophantic. It's very refreshing to see. edit: Ok maybe it's not completely gone yet.

Because we all want Tesla to succeed. It's competition in an industry that needs what Tesla is trying to bring to market. It will also greatly benefit the American economy to be the first to mass produce inexpensive electric cars. So personally, I read comments like yours and wonder who you are and why you feel it is necessary to be critical of that motive.

so what you're saying is that selective information > all information. an ends justify the means, of sorts - a very myopic, startup-like mentality, IMO; Boz would be proud [1].

[1] https://www.theverge.com/2018/3/29/17178086/facebook-growth-...

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#112

Post by localhost »

rgbrenner wrote: post #74
StudentStuff wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole play with making their own tooling seems ill conceived at Tesla's small scale, and it has definitely set the Model 3's production back quite a bit.

This has been true across the board at Tesla... they make almost all of the parts in house, even when there are established reliable providers... even when it costs them more and results in lower quality.. even when they are already short staffed. Musk is pro-NIH syndrome. In fairness, Musk says they will eventually be as reliable, and as high quality as others and it'll be cheaper.. one day. That's the common NIH fa…

There are quite a few parts in the Model S that come from suppliers. The steering wheel, window / mirror controls all appear to come from the same folks that supply Mercedes. I don't know where the parts for the Model 3 come from - the steering wheel and window / mirror controls are definitely different.

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#113

Post by majormajor »

netsec_burn wrote: post #102
IBM wrote: post #84

It's really surprising to me see posts critical of Tesla highly upvoted on HN these days. It tells me the narrative around Tesla is finally starting to break down, and naturally the stock price has declined from its highs as well. A few years ago most of the comments here would have been much more sycophantic. It's very refreshing to see. edit: Ok maybe it's not completely gone yet.

Because we all want Tesla to succeed. It's competition in an industry that needs what Tesla is trying to bring to market. It will also greatly benefit the American economy to be the first to mass produce inexpensive electric cars. So personally, I read comments like yours and wonder who you are and why you feel it is necessary to be critical of that motive.

I want the electric car transition to succeed, but if Tesla's becoming a bad actor in their quest to be the biggest winner, than I don't think that's helpful for the overall effort anymore.

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#114

Post by notyourday »

nerfhammer wrote: post #93
vkou wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which part of this story is crazy? That someone got injured working at an automotive plant, that they were strongly encouraged to do overtime, or that their employer declined to assume any liability?

Denying worker's comp for injury is so obviously illegal and such a brazen civil liability that it would be shocking that a company of Tesla's size would be able to simply refuse to deal with it. This person should be able to sue the pants off of Tesla. If they haven't gotten any compensation for their injuries maybe they haven't even filed a worker's comp claim, or they don't know that's a thing, or something.

I know a few worker comp attorneys in NY and CA. They say that in general worker comp claims that are being fought take 3-5 years to win.

There's an entire sub-industry of attorneys specializing in fighting insurers/companies on worker comp cases.

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#115

Post by notyourday »

watwut wrote: post #65
jonny_eh wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you trying to point out that Occam's Razor is flawed? Occam's Razor would tell you that evolution (which has over a century of evidence) is more likely than a designer god (which is lacking in evidence).

God is simpler then original theory of evolution which is simple the current evolutionary theory. Occam razor favors simplications over careful analysis.

Actually it is reverse. Evolution is much simpler as a theory than an idea of God creating everything correctly

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#116

Post by [deleted] »

mschuster91 wrote: post #108
rgbrenner wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but that isn't what I'm talking about.. for example, Tesla produces seats in house.. they're low margin and labor intensive. And Tesla runs an assembly line in their factory that makes them cost even more. Other auto companies outsource this part. There's no special IP here.. Not everything that Tesla touches is special. A seat is a seat.

> they're low margin and labor intensive ... and thus very vulnerable to strikes or arbitrary price hikes. Yes, a seat is a seat, but once you're locked in into a vendor, you are locked in. Tesla wants to avoid lock-ins as far as possible and especially something where a switch to a different manufacturer is as difficult as a seat. You can switch a vendor for a simple plastic part in a matter of days if the need aris…

[deleted]

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#117

Post by avar »

mschuster91 wrote: post #108
rgbrenner wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but that isn't what I'm talking about.. for example, Tesla produces seats in house.. they're low margin and labor intensive. And Tesla runs an assembly line in their factory that makes them cost even more. Other auto companies outsource this part. There's no special IP here.. Not everything that Tesla touches is special. A seat is a seat.

> they're low margin and labor intensive ... and thus very vulnerable to strikes or arbitrary price hikes. Yes, a seat is a seat, but once you're locked in into a vendor, you are locked in. Tesla wants to avoid lock-ins as far as possible and especially something where a switch to a different manufacturer is as difficult as a seat. You can switch a vendor for a simple plastic part in a matter of days if the need aris…

    > Yes, a seat is a seat, but once you're
    > locked in into a vendor, you are locked in.
How would they get locked into a vendor if a "seat is a seat"? Isn't the entire point that it's a generic and easily sourced component?

If it's easy for other car manufacturers at much bigger scales why would it be an issue for Tesla?

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#118

Post by secabeen »

rgbrenner wrote: post #96
mschuster91 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> even when it costs them more and results in lower quality. The advantage of keeping much knowledge in-house is that you are not subject to extortion campaigns (e.g. the Prevent/VW dispute. In addition you - are always exposing your internal knowledge to the part vendor and have to rely on the vendor protecting your IP from other customers, so "inventing here" works out better. - are not bound to endless rounds of w…

Yes, but that isn't what I'm talking about.. for example, Tesla produces seats in house.. they're low margin and labor intensive. And Tesla runs an assembly line in their factory that makes them cost even more. Other auto companies outsource this part. There's no special IP here.. Not everything that Tesla touches is special. A seat is a seat.

Tesla brought seats in-house because the sub-contractor they had had problems and caused delays.

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#119

Post by Animats »

"... ideologically motivated attack by an extremist organization working directly with union supporters to create a calculated disinformation campaign against Tesla. The piece even includes an interview with Worksafe – the same organization that the UAW enlisted to publish a negative report against Tesla last year, and whose board includes labor union officials and advocates."[1] - from Tesla's own site.

Wow. That sounds like something Hannity or Trump would say. Is Musk losing it?

The United Automotive Workers union is hardly an "extremist organization".

[1] https://www.tesla.com/blog/not-so-revealing-story

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#120

Post by [deleted] »

chalkandpaste wrote: post #16

THIS IS FANTASTIC. I’ve had a friend, a specialist engineer doing failure analysis, who has been largely incapacitated from any work because of Tesla. He sustained an injury during a high urgency project (which failed, whodathunk) which required him to work 16 hour days for a few months. During the course of this, he sustained injuries to arms and legs due to machinery issues (the machinery at Tesla often has workers…

[deleted]
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