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Ask HN: What's a good response to “It's fine, I've got nothing to hide online”?

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Re: Ask HN: What's a good response to “It's fine, I've got nothing to hide online”?

#61

Post by ujal »

"The Netherlands used to keep track of people’s religion as part of the public records. The intent was noble as always: by keeping track of how many Jews, Catholics, and Protestants there were in a city and its different parts, you would be able to plan for an appropriate amount of synagogues, Protestant churches, and Catholic churches, their proportion to one another, and so on.

Then, World War II came around.

There were almost no Jews at all in the Netherlands after World War II. According to Wikipedia, less than 10% survived (14,346, compared to an earlier population of 154,887). As it turns out, it was very convenient for the… new administration… to have access to the collected data, and it was indeed used against the citizens, as it always is in the end." --

Re: Ask HN: What's a good response to “It's fine, I've got nothing to hide online”?

#62

Post by gargravarr »

reitanqild wrote: post #12

Using police as an example since I don't trust Facebook at all. For me the turning point was when I realised that while I have nothing to hide from police or governments today I might have something I wish to hide from governments in 2030. For a real world example of this, see Turkey - a country that was quickly approaching western standards but turned around in less than 2 years. Also, while I trust local police tha…

In the early years of Mao Zedong's China, the government appeared open and willing to listen to common people's ideas on how it should be run. Many, especially younger generations, were encouraged to openly express their opinions.

Shortly thereafter, Mao backtracked on the whole thing, surprising everyone, and labeled anyone who had spoken out as opposition; because people had publicly spoken out against the government, they were easily tracked down and imprisoned.[0]

What the government gives with one hand, it can easily take with the other. There is no reason to think such an event could not happen again, and that what you freely share today could be used against you at some time in the future.

[0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundred_Flowers_Campaign

Re: Ask HN: What's a good response to “It's fine, I've got nothing to hide online”?

#63

Post by gargravarr »

Freak_NL wrote: post #44
gargravarr wrote: post #26

I would ask to rifle through their phone right in front of them. There's a subtle difference between something you'd want to hide (because it could be incriminating) and something you don't want made public (because it could be embarrassing). I have nothing incriminating, but I have embarrassing stuff on my phone that I would rather nobody looked at. A phone is an intensely personal device where a lot of your private…

Why would airport security care about your reasoning? They don't need a warrant when you're still outside the border, and they most likely are not in a position to bargain with you on what they may and may not do — and they probably won't respond favourably to any attempt to do so.

True on all counts, but it might make the person actually doing the search question their own motives for doing so. Just because they have the power to conduct random warrantless searches with no prior suspicion (which I totally abhor as it likely leads to racial profiling, like Stop and Search here in the UK), does not mean they need to use it.

Then again, I'm a university-educated white male. It'll probably never happen to me, but will disproportionately to others.

Re: Ask HN: What's a good response to “It's fine, I've got nothing to hide online”?

#64

Post by gargravarr »

oblio wrote: post #42
gargravarr wrote: post #26

I would ask to rifle through their phone right in front of them. There's a subtle difference between something you'd want to hide (because it could be incriminating) and something you don't want made public (because it could be embarrassing). I have nothing incriminating, but I have embarrassing stuff on my phone that I would rather nobody looked at. A phone is an intensely personal device where a lot of your private…

This is in my opinion the best answer. You want something that causes a visceral reaction, not rational arguments. The more disgust, fear, awkwardness you can cause with your action, the clearer the message you get across.

Absolutely. And once you get that reaction, all you need to do to drive the privacy message home is to ask 'and why not?'

No other words need to be said after that point, even if they can't come up with an answer.

Re: Ask HN: What's a good response to “It's fine, I've got nothing to hide online”?

#66

Post by gargravarr »

danieltillett wrote: post #53

Lots of good responses here so I will add a tangent. I have often wondered what it would be like if we had total openness and everything everyone did and said was recorded and available to everyone. Would it be a nightmare or not?

I'm thinking of something along the lines of 'The Invention of Lying' but I don't think I can imagine anything worse...

Re: Ask HN: What's a good response to “It's fine, I've got nothing to hide online”?

#67

Post by gargravarr »

gtsteve wrote: post #15

A more aggressive example that seems to get the idea through to people: > Would you be OK with the police installing a camera in your house? Don't worry, they'll only look at it if they think you've done something wrong, you can trust them on that. Totally. You've got nothing to hide, right? I think non-tech people don't quite realise what sort of footprint they leave online, whereas the idea of a camera being in you…

I often quote this as well:

https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/2013-06-10

Re: Ask HN: What's a good response to “It's fine, I've got nothing to hide online”?

#68

Post by Cthulhu_ »

gargravarr wrote: post #26

I would ask to rifle through their phone right in front of them. There's a subtle difference between something you'd want to hide (because it could be incriminating) and something you don't want made public (because it could be embarrassing). I have nothing incriminating, but I have embarrassing stuff on my phone that I would rather nobody looked at. A phone is an intensely personal device where a lot of your private…

Alternatively, depending on the situation, see if you have a personal conversation with them online, or whether you can get saucy stuff off their facebook.

Re: Ask HN: What's a good response to “It's fine, I've got nothing to hide online”?

#69

Post by Cthulhu_ »

gtsteve wrote: post #15

A more aggressive example that seems to get the idea through to people: > Would you be OK with the police installing a camera in your house? Don't worry, they'll only look at it if they think you've done something wrong, you can trust them on that. Totally. You've got nothing to hide, right? I think non-tech people don't quite realise what sort of footprint they leave online, whereas the idea of a camera being in you…

Ask them if they've read 1984 and would be comfortable with having one of those bidirectional TV's in their house.

...actually that probably doesn't work anymore, given how there's smart TV's, home assistants and smartphones with always-on cameras and microphones.

Re: Ask HN: What's a good response to “It's fine, I've got nothing to hide online”?

#70

Post by Cthulhu_ »

ujal wrote: post #61

"The Netherlands used to keep track of people’s religion as part of the public records. The intent was noble as always: by keeping track of how many Jews, Catholics, and Protestants there were in a city and its different parts, you would be able to plan for an appropriate amount of synagogues, Protestant churches, and Catholic churches, their proportion to one another, and so on. Then, World War II came around. There…

And that is why a proposed Muslim registry is chilling.

I don't know for sure, but were census records used to put Japanese-Americans in concentration camps in the US in WW2? Or was that based purely on looks?

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