Which is the most ideologically diverse American city? • Hacker News Board

Re: Which is the most ideologically diverse American city?

#81

Post by moorhosj » Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 4:32 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #76

moorhosj wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who in DC is "telling everyone what to do"? We vote for them, they write the laws. That is how a representative democracy works. Under your vision of uneducated leaders, would those people still be "telling everyone what to do" when they write a law?

There is a vast army of wonks (mostly in executive departments and agencies) that are doing most of the “telling everyone what to do.”

Do you think MBAs should tell software engineers how to write code? Do you consider people who specialize in software development "wonks" or just experts?

Re: Which is the most ideologically diverse American city?

#82

Post by bryanlarsen » Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 4:51 PM UTC

gamblor956 wrote: post #78

bryanlarsen wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Toronto is 50% immigrants, LA is 40% immigrants. LA's immigrants are 2/3rds Latino, Toronto's immigrants are very broadly composed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Toronto https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Los_Angeles

LA is 40% immigrants because large immigrant populations are already established in LA, whereas Toronto was basically white until a few decades ago. LA is roughly 48% Latino, 30% "white", 11% Asian, 10% Black, and 30% "other" generally referring to smaller ethnic groups or to multi-ethnic individuals. LA's minority population on an absolute basis is larger than the entire population of the Toronto Metro Area. We have…

"the only settled populations of those groups outside of their home countries, such as Iranian Jews and Druze."

Rural Alberta has Druze communities, let alone Toronto.

"and the remainder is Asian"

Not true, a significant portion of the "other" category in Toronto is Arab and African. Not to mention the fact that "Asian" itself is a highly diverse category.

"Toronto was basically white until a few decades ago"

Exactly. Toronto's hugely diverse population is quite young, meaning it is much less assimilated.

Re: Which is the most ideologically diverse American city?

#83

Post by freeone3000 » Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 4:56 PM UTC

briandear wrote: post #9

Eurongreyjoy wrote: post #3

> Washington DC: The intellectual class in this city is about half conservative/Republican/libertarian and always will be. While I think the 50 percent figure is high, people tend to only think of DC as a liberal city. Of course it primarily is, but there is a large population of well-educated conservatives and libertarians living here. Most of my social circle leans left, but it was always good living in DC to hear…

51% black doesn’t make it “extremely diverse.” That makes it “majority black.” Hispanics are only 4% of the population, Asians less than 3%. Whites are roughly 43% I am not sure how diverse that is and certainly questionable to call that “extremely diverse.”

There's more diverse people, which makes it more diverse. At least, according to modern corporate thought.

Re: Which is the most ideologically diverse American city?

#84

Post by toasterlovin » Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 5:16 PM UTC

bryanlarsen wrote: post #71

toasterlovin wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you figure Toronto is more culturally diverse than LA? LA has large communities of people from essentially every part of the world. Maybe they're roughly on par?

Toronto is 50% immigrants, LA is 40% immigrants. LA's immigrants are 2/3rds Latino, Toronto's immigrants are very broadly composed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Toronto https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Los_Angeles

To me, 50% vs 40% isn't "far more culturally diverse". Especially when you consider that Los Angeles has more than 2x the number of people. And I can tell you that the experience of living in Los Angeles is insanely multicultural. It's like somebody took the globe and shrunk it down to fit inside of a single city. In the course of a 30 minute drive, you can pass through neighborhoods where the store front signage is alternately in Korean, Armenian, Chinese, Spanish, Russian, etc. I mean, there basically are no white people in the city core, outside of extremely affluent neighborhoods.

Re: Which is the most ideologically diverse American city?

#85

Post by whataretensors » Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 5:34 PM UTC

reversecs wrote: post #31

whataretensors wrote: post #12

"Mexicans fit along a political spectrum of their own." Tell me more about this mexican political spectrum. I'm only half can I join? Btw what do we believe in?

Americans have a political spectrum, like a range of beliefs that the conservatives have to the liberals. Probably most countries have different political spectrums, Europe in general has done away with gun rights debates and so their political spectrum is different than those in the u.s. It's definitely not a race thing, it's a nationality. It's just a fact that every nation has their own type of polarization, aka s…

Everyone wants to group people by race or nationality. It's extremely racist and bipartisan.

Re: Which is the most ideologically diverse American city?

#86

Post by bryanlarsen » Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 5:47 PM UTC

toasterlovin wrote: post #84

bryanlarsen wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Toronto is 50% immigrants, LA is 40% immigrants. LA's immigrants are 2/3rds Latino, Toronto's immigrants are very broadly composed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Toronto https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Los_Angeles

To me, 50% vs 40% isn't "far more culturally diverse". Especially when you consider that Los Angeles has more than 2x the number of people. And I can tell you that the experience of living in Los Angeles is insanely multicultural. It's like somebody took the globe and shrunk it down to fit inside of a single city. In the course of a 30 minute drive, you can pass through neighborhoods where the store front signage is…

Pretty much exactly my experience in Toronto, but I never experienced that in my visits to LA. Perhaps Toronto is not "far more" diverse, but I still maintain that it is more diverse.

I imagine that in both cities it matters a great deal which suburbs you include in your census when measuring ethnic diversity so it's really hard to compare directly.

Re: Which is the most ideologically diverse American city?

#87

Post by walshemj » Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 6:12 PM UTC

madhadron wrote: post #64

walshemj wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much all of the revolutions in until Russia in 1917 where almost 100% like this listen to Mike Duncans revolutions podcast series and its a very common theme. I suspect some of the founders would have been OK with the franchise being limited to well off males.

> I suspect some of the founders would have been OK with the franchise being limited to well off males. In fact, it was originally limited to well off males.

Ah I haven't listened to the AWI podcasts he has done yet

Re: Which is the most ideologically diverse American city?

#88

Post by reversecs » Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 6:25 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #48

reversecs wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point of diversity of opinion is that you have a challenge against the ideas of yourself and of others. If everybody around you agrees with what you say then you may never be thoughtful about your positions and can get away with being wrong. In academia a paper is written by a human who desperately wants to be right and publish it (because they are self interested of course) and the peer review process is there t…

If someone is searching for data to support their bias, then they are not qualified to to analyze data and do not have sufficient knowledge of statistics. It's important to know what you're not able to discern from the information you have. The labels "conservative/liberal" don't mean much to me either. I find that many people are motivates by economics, or supporting their own tribes/ego. Many of these "opinions" co…

Yea then nobody is qualified to analyze the data.

And there is reason to consider opposing opinions on vaccines, and then after the best evidence from both sides are provided a real conclusion can be made (it has already been made) and then it's no longer worth considering unless new evidence arises.

Re: Which is the most ideologically diverse American city?

#89

Post by ihsw2 » Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 6:38 PM UTC

matthewmacleod wrote: post #49

ihsw2 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In all honesty, I'm sure the south wouldn't mind the social welfare state with all its trappings if it wasn't draped in progressive supremacist ideology. Surely there's an opportunity here, driving forward things like public healthcare (or public education) sans the diversity rhetoric.

Surely there's an opportunity here, driving forward things like public healthcare (or public education) sans the diversity rhetoric. What is "the diversity rhetoric"? Is it practically speaking possible to have a public healthcare system or a pubic education system without examining "diversity" in those services?

Diversity rhetoric, in this context, refers to social constructivism.

The basic idea behind this kind of social constructivism is that society is "sinful" and it must be corrected through moralizing (ie: interpreting all social issues as moral issues), essentialism (ie: reducing people to superficial qualities like race and gender), and Utopian ideology (ie: striving for a perfect society free of sin).

"Examining" "diversity" is largely unrelated to providing health services.

Re: Which is the most ideologically diverse American city?

#90

Post by busterarm » Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 7:13 PM UTC

guelo wrote: post #21

The question is complicated by the fact that a big part of the modern Republican ideology is a hatred of cities and an anti intellectualism. Which, by the way, is historically a very dangerous ideology and led to things like the Khmer Rouge's genocide.

You know that the heart of traditional right-wing media and all of its pundits are in midtown New York City, right? And that the next generation of right-wing media is based out of Toronto?

It's only Christian Conservatives, which are not part of "modern Republican ideology" _at all_ who are anti-(Northern-)city.

They're also (typically) well-read folks, just they're reading different stuff, and see themselves as intellectuals first before anything else.

The "Christian Right" has been a dead concept politically when that party's leadership realized they no longer needed them to get a president elected back with Dubya (the first time).