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The Irreproducibility Crisis of Modern Science

nas.org

51–60 of 265 posts

Re: The Irreproducibility Crisis of Modern Science

#51
We know that weak classifiers can be bagged to produce a strong classifier al la Adaboost.

Each study is a weak classifier and would have a 'reproducibility crisis' if retested on new data. However after lots of studies of similar phenomena, a strong classifier emerges. In the field, we call this converging lines of evidence.

Re: The Irreproducibility Crisis of Modern Science

#52

Recently I have been beginning to question university education. It seems that today's education system has mismatched priorities which may have an impact on the reproducibility crisis. You see, to come up with a fantastic new alloy, you don't have to be a genius. Or even very good. You have to be persistent, and clever enough to realize when you've found something interesting. You will need to understand your field…

To the downvoters: please explain your reasoning. I think I raised some good points here.

Re: The Irreproducibility Crisis of Modern Science

#53
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Racial 'science' was used by the Nazi's to justify antisemitism, eugenics, and everything they did beyond that. The scientific method is important to be used, but don't trust something just because another person believes it to be science. You need the hypothesis and the verification method. Others (all of us) have the obligation to challenge both the hypothesis as well as the verification methods.

So, 'science' not science? Got it. That was a pretty quick Godwining, by the way.

To be fair, I took a step back from saying Hitler, and I said Nazis, I was one step removed from invoking Godwin's law in its formal definition.

More seriously, it wasn't just this group that believed in this stuff, it was the many many institutions in the western world, as emodendroket points out. Certain departments at Yale, most notably, supported eugenics.

https://embryo.asu.edu/pages/american-eugenics-society-1926-...

edited portion in case people think I meant all of Yale, bad generalization, my bad.

Re: The Irreproducibility Crisis of Modern Science

#54
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, 'science' not science? Got it. That was a pretty quick Godwining, by the way.

The issue is that it's not easy for the populace to tell the difference between 'science' and science in a lot of cases. You see this on all parts of the political spectrums. Soviet Lysenkoism, left wing anti vax crap, and neo liberal austerity. EDIT: Krugman had this to say about the R&R austerity paper "What the Reinhart-Rogoff affair shows is the extent to which austerity has been sold on false pretenses. For thre…

The same Krugman who pronounced the markets would never recover from Trump's election or that since we didn't pass a large enough stimulus we were doomed to low GDP growth rates forever?

Re: The Irreproducibility Crisis of Modern Science

#55
post #12
post #4

This is the exact reason I don't believe science should be used blindly to affect government policy. It flies in the face of democracy and is subject to falsehoods just like any other human endeavor.

If we don't use science to make decisions, what are we supposed to use? Gut instinct? Of course science is imperfect, but it tends towards truth over time, whereas dogma and populism have no way of correcting mistakes that isn't just as likely to introduce new ones.

If a decision has to be made then science as a guide may be the best option but much of the time it would be better for government not to try and make policy at all in complex areas. Using "healthy eating" as an example, governments might try to influence what people eat by taxing or even outlawing "unhealthy" foods or subsidizing "healthy" foods. Instead of arguing over whether and how much the government should be imposing sin taxes on fats (and what kind of fats?) or sugars (and what kind of sugars), the better approach would be to do nothing and let people make their own choices based on the best information available to them at the time.

Re: The Irreproducibility Crisis of Modern Science

#56
post #3

Being reproducible is only critically important if people treat individual studies as meaningful. That IMO is a far more dangerous stance. Any study can have hidden flaws, none should be trusted without some form of replication.

That implies there's no systemic, institutional, bias. Which is clearly not the case.

Re: The Irreproducibility Crisis of Modern Science

#57
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The report (not a paper) is actually written for a lay audience and very readable: https://www.nas.org/images/documents/irreproducibility_repor...

It's a position paper from a conservative think tank and needs to be treated as such.

What makes it a conservative think tank?

Re: The Irreproducibility Crisis of Modern Science

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is why, as a (global) society, we should spend our resources in making sure the data we have is accurate by funding research and repeated studies, and that data should be open to all to verify and build upon.

I think we're passed the point where studies can be reproduced effectively. I actually think the scientific model is falling apart. We've discovered the easy things, and those studies were easy to reproduce. We built a model of science around the low hanging fruit. How are you going to reproduce a study about a cancer drug? Synthesizing the drug itself is a huge endeavor, never mind finding a group of participants wi…

Cost aside you make a good point. In today's science we are trying to uncover subtle effects with much more noise.

Re: The Irreproducibility Crisis of Modern Science

#59
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we don't use science to make decisions, what are we supposed to use? Gut instinct? Of course science is imperfect, but it tends towards truth over time, whereas dogma and populism have no way of correcting mistakes that isn't just as likely to introduce new ones.

Even if science were perfect it couldn't tell us about moral axioms or value judgments. Additionally, using science and other expert judgments can easily tend toward simply choosing experts and studies that align with whatever policy you want to push for unrelated reasons, or outright seeking to manipulate research for political ends.

> Additionally, using science and other expert judgments can easily tend toward simply choosing experts and studies that align with whatever policy you want to push for unrelated reasons, or outright seeking to manipulate research for political ends.

Of course it can, but that's equally true for any other way of making decisions. So it's not a downside of science in particular.

Re: The Irreproducibility Crisis of Modern Science

#60
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lysenkoism happens in the American and European scientific establishments as well. As an example I would suggest Ancel Keys and the cholesterol hypothesis of heart disease.

That's a bad example. It's a much more complex scenario, where the drugs that fight the expected cause of the disease does in fact help protecting against it. Confusing causality is very hard to solve.

If you're talking about statins, Ancel Keys was promoting shoddy science on high fat diets to influence government policy before statins were discovered.
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