Which is the most ideologically diverse American city? • Hacker News Board

Re: Which is the most ideologically diverse American city?

#61

Post by jernfrost » Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 1:46 PM UTC

chrisdevereux wrote: post #39

Given that we tend to over-emphasise the differences between ideological positions that we're more familiar with, and under-emphasise the difference between positions that we aren't, it's hard to see how an exercise like this tells us anything except the author's own political experience and imagination. Even if there were empirical data here, how could we objectively determine the distance between ideological perspe…

Exactly. Here in Norway e.g. the non-market oriented political ideologies would be represented by at least 5 different parties: communists, socialists, social-democrats, social-liberals, and liberal-Christians.

Although the social-liberals and liberal-Christians are not usually considered pro market, although they don't seem to be the American sense of pro-market. Like they are not actively pushing privatization as a major focus. Rather they are more against state infringement on individual rights.

Re: Which is the most ideologically diverse American city?

#62

Post by mhuffman » Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 1:55 PM UTC

moorhosj wrote: post #52

rayiner wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work here and I agree. Everyone here thinks that the educated class should run the country. I had to move out to Anne Arundel to get away from it.

Was there a time when people thought the uneducated class should run the country? Were most of the founders part of the “educated class”?

I would go further and be curious if people think that the uneducated class running the country is a good idea now?

Re: Which is the most ideologically diverse American city?

#63

Post by SlapHappy » Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 2:00 PM UTC

guelo wrote: post #59

SlapHappy wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are aware that the Khmer Rouge was a leftist Marxist government, right? Also, the “hatred” goes both ways.

I wasn't suggesting that the ideologies are identical, just that they share those elements. And no, the hatred does not go both ways, but you might think so because another big part of modern Republican ideology is victimization and resentment. Which are also powerful dangerous forces historically.

I wasn't suggesting that the ideologies are identical, just that they share those elements

The way you worded your comment obviously made that implication - between Republicans and the Khmer Rouge, when in fact the Khmer Rouge was a leftist, communist, Marxist government, whose leaders were steeped in academic Marxist "intellectualism" (they studied in Paris, no less).

Deciphering whether you intended it or not is not my motive, so I'll leave that to the readers.

And no, the hatred does not go both ways,but you might think so

I disagree, but I have no horse in this race - my personal politics are boring centrist liberalism.

so because another big part of modern Republican ideology is victimization

Is it opposite day or something?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersectionality

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_politics

Re: Which is the most ideologically diverse American city?

#64

Post by madhadron » Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 2:06 PM UTC

walshemj wrote: post #55

moorhosj wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was there a time when people thought the uneducated class should run the country? Were most of the founders part of the “educated class”?

Pretty much all of the revolutions in until Russia in 1917 where almost 100% like this listen to Mike Duncans revolutions podcast series and its a very common theme. I suspect some of the founders would have been OK with the franchise being limited to well off males.

> I suspect some of the founders would have been OK with the franchise being limited to well off males.

In fact, it was originally limited to well off males.

Re: Which is the most ideologically diverse American city?

#65

Post by confounded » Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 2:09 PM UTC

iguy wrote: post #56

matthewmacleod wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely there's an opportunity here, driving forward things like public healthcare (or public education) sans the diversity rhetoric. What is "the diversity rhetoric"? Is it practically speaking possible to have a public healthcare system or a pubic education system without examining "diversity" in those services?

Most of the ways in which public education could be better would improve it for everyone. But the NY Times (for example) is unable to discuss it without focusing on differences between groups of people. I think GP is saying that this gets people's backs up, and isn't necessary for making improvements. The reason it angers people isn't entirely irrational. For example, if you know that your next public school principa…

> For example, if you know that your next public school principal is going to be judged not on the total quality, but solely on the black-white difference, then you know that he will be tempted to game the rating system and make things worse for one group.

I find this claim astonishing. Do you have an example of it happening?

Re: Which is the most ideologically diverse American city?

#66

Post by toasterlovin » Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 2:20 PM UTC

bryanlarsen wrote: post #51

thedaniel wrote: post #22

Well, I'd guess the most culturally diverse city (Los Angeles) is a likely answer.

Toronto is far more culturally diverse than LA, and that's the city that elected Rob Ford as mayor.

How do you figure Toronto is more culturally diverse than LA? LA has large communities of people from essentially every part of the world. Maybe they're roughly on par?

Re: Which is the most ideologically diverse American city?

#67

Post by toasterlovin » Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 2:25 PM UTC

js8 wrote: post #2

First, article is talking more about ideological divide (democratic/republican) than ideological diversity (which would presumably mean many other viewpoints). Not sure about ideological diversity, and how to even measure it, but ideological divide to me seems as an inevitable result of two party system (and majority voting system), as both parties struggle to get supporters. In order to do that, they often abandon o…

I guess the American political parties have shifted over historical time, but they haven't shifted much in the last 4 decades or so. And there are pretty reliable ideological differences between democrats and republicans, across a wide variety of issues. Of course, you lose a lot of information with a binary classification, but the binary classification still tells you quite a bit in this case.

Re: Which is the most ideologically diverse American city?

#68

Post by yellowapple » Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 2:27 PM UTC

I'd imagine this would correlate with ethnic and/or economic diversity, which makes it surprising that Sacramento (my hometown, and consistently in the top 15 of the variety of "most ethnically/economically diverse American cities" lists, sometimes venturing into the top 5 or the #1 spot) seems to be absent from the article.

Re: Which is the most ideologically diverse American city?

#69

Post by rayiner » Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 2:45 PM UTC

mhuffman wrote: post #62

moorhosj wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was there a time when people thought the uneducated class should run the country? Were most of the founders part of the “educated class”?

I would go further and be curious if people think that the uneducated class running the country is a good idea now?

Yes. I think the DC mindset that highly educated wonks should tell everyone what to do is intensely anti-Democratic.

Re: Which is the most ideologically diverse American city?

#70

Post by dajohnson89 » Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 2:49 PM UTC

>2. Washington, D.C. and environs. The intellectual class in this city is about half conservative/Republican/libertarian and always will be — just don’t think too hard about who actually lives here!

Um....what? DC resident here. The only conservatives I see, anywhere, are tourists from the South/Midwest. The "intellectual class" is not linearly mapped to the Congress proportions. While conservative politicians (by the way most politicians live in the suburbs, outside DC) have conservative staffers, there's way more non-profits which are overwhelmingly liberal.