Which is the most ideologically diverse American city? • Hacker News Board

Re: Which is the most ideologically diverse American city?

#41

Post by kristopolous » Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 12:02 PM UTC

Spooky23 wrote: post #24

kristopolous wrote: post #5

How can this question be reasonably answered? Maybe places with high numbers of academics and articulate people can be measured but that's about it. There's multiple dimensions when it comes to ideology and multiple approaches to each dimension. There's even fundamentally different interpretations of the categorical differences on how to subdivide the classifications of these systems. And each of these facets have wi…

Look for places with competitive elections.

That could be more an indicator of a lack of political consensus or a fractured political power then of ideological diversity.

As a concrete analogy, let's pretend there's a monarchy and the king, with identical twins, dies. There can be a highly competitive power struggle in between the two heirs but not over anything ideologically different.

This happens in sports all the time. There's many highly competitive sports games, but the two teams are still playing the same game by the same rules; they don't represent different ideologies.

Re: Which is the most ideologically diverse American city?

#42

Post by skywhopper » Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 12:06 PM UTC

What I find interesting is that Tyler makes it all about his personal POV. Everyone _he_ talks to in Washington is obsessed with hour-by-hour politics. Everyone _he_ talks to in San Francisco and Seattle are obsessed with blockchain. But only in other places he's apparently never actually visited, he assumes, those people probably have "regular lives". The only thing this post shows is how insulated Tyler's own life is from the vast majority of Americans.

Re: Which is the most ideologically diverse American city?

#43

Post by BaronSamedi » Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 12:11 PM UTC

nabla9 wrote: post #7

Cowen uses intellectual and ideological diversity interchangeably. I would argue that intellectual and ideological bubbles are only partially intersect and most of his readers are more interested in intellectual diversity. I also suspect that binary conservatives/liberals division is not bringing enough diversity either ideologically or intellectually. The political diversity is large cities with large universities w…

Good point. The Left/Right model of politics poorly reflects the complexity and nuance of people's actual views. It is good for encouraging us-versus-them conflict but terrible for real understanding.

Re: Which is the most ideologically diverse American city?

#44

Post by kristopolous » Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 12:13 PM UTC

nickik wrote: post #34

kristopolous wrote: post #5

How can this question be reasonably answered? Maybe places with high numbers of academics and articulate people can be measured but that's about it. There's multiple dimensions when it comes to ideology and multiple approaches to each dimension. There's even fundamentally different interpretations of the categorical differences on how to subdivide the classifications of these systems. And each of these facets have wi…

> For instance, many San Francisco "lefties" are anarcho-capitalists That seems a bit strange. I know quite a bit about anarcho-capitalism, but I have never, never ever heard anybody claim they were 'left'. In fact generally 'leftism' is associated with socialism and the exact opposite of what AnCaps want.

If you use a non-technical approximation of the term as the placeholder for the true bearers of liberty and freedom, then sure.

As far as others considering them "lefties", to some people, a few checkboxes put you in a generalized "leftist/liberal/fascist/democrat/communist" category, which these people consider to all be the same thing. For instance: pro-immigrant, gay rights, and weed-legalization would be the end of the discussion for them. Their analysis is over and they don't care to discuss it any further.

There's a lot of people like that. I meet them frequently.

Re: Which is the most ideologically diverse American city?

#45

Post by superkuh » Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 12:20 PM UTC

Well, it won't be any large or mega city. Statistically as they grow larger they'll homogenize. It's far more likely to be some tiny hundreds of person, barely incorporated place no one has heard of. In those the deviation won't be smoothed out.

Re: Which is the most ideologically diverse American city?

#46

Post by saalweachter » Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 12:22 PM UTC

humanrebar wrote: post #16

js8 wrote: post #2

First, article is talking more about ideological divide (democratic/republican) than ideological diversity (which would presumably mean many other viewpoints). Not sure about ideological diversity, and how to even measure it, but ideological divide to me seems as an inevitable result of two party system (and majority voting system), as both parties struggle to get supporters. In order to do that, they often abandon o…

> ideological divide (democratic/republican) Political divide is probably more descriptive. But I agree. "Texas", "lesbian", "Mexican", and "Midwest" are not ideologies. They're identities.

I think Texas is big enough to be a State, and identity, and an ideology.

Re: Which is the most ideologically diverse American city?

#47

Post by ihsw2 » Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 12:24 PM UTC

mseebach wrote: post #6

js8 wrote: post #2

First, article is talking more about ideological divide (democratic/republican) than ideological diversity (which would presumably mean many other viewpoints). Not sure about ideological diversity, and how to even measure it, but ideological divide to me seems as an inevitable result of two party system (and majority voting system), as both parties struggle to get supporters. In order to do that, they often abandon o…

Surely, true ideological diversity begins with (but indeed doesn't end with) the capacity to have democrats and republicans successfully coexist, something that parts of California and parts of the south, respectively, has struggled with.

In all honesty, I'm sure the south wouldn't mind the social welfare state with all its trappings if it wasn't draped in progressive supremacist ideology.

Surely there's an opportunity here, driving forward things like public healthcare (or public education) sans the diversity rhetoric.

Re: Which is the most ideologically diverse American city?

#48

Post by lotsofpulp » Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 12:25 PM UTC

reversecs wrote: post #29

lotsofpulp wrote: post #8

What is the point diversity for the sake of diversity? What you want is a community of people who can analyze data and have sufficient knowledge of statistics to know how to distinguish valid information from garbage. There's no point in being around anti vaccine people, or people who base their arguments in assumptions (beliefs) from old stories.

The point of diversity of opinion is that you have a challenge against the ideas of yourself and of others. If everybody around you agrees with what you say then you may never be thoughtful about your positions and can get away with being wrong. In academia a paper is written by a human who desperately wants to be right and publish it (because they are self interested of course) and the peer review process is there t…

If someone is searching for data to support their bias, then they are not qualified to to analyze data and do not have sufficient knowledge of statistics. It's important to know what you're not able to discern from the information you have.

The labels "conservative/liberal" don't mean much to me either. I find that many people are motivates by economics, or supporting their own tribes/ego. Many of these "opinions" come from organizations funded by wealthy people who benefit from the voters having those opinions, and I don't see any point in ascribing them any value.

At least in academia, there is a process that can result in valid results about our world, such as climate change. But there is no reason to consider Jenny Mccarthy's opinion on vaccines, or some oil magnate in Texas's opinion about climate change.

Re: Which is the most ideologically diverse American city?

#49

Post by matthewmacleod » Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 12:28 PM UTC

ihsw2 wrote: post #47

mseebach wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely, true ideological diversity begins with (but indeed doesn't end with) the capacity to have democrats and republicans successfully coexist, something that parts of California and parts of the south, respectively, has struggled with.

In all honesty, I'm sure the south wouldn't mind the social welfare state with all its trappings if it wasn't draped in progressive supremacist ideology. Surely there's an opportunity here, driving forward things like public healthcare (or public education) sans the diversity rhetoric.

Surely there's an opportunity here, driving forward things like public healthcare (or public education) sans the diversity rhetoric.

What is "the diversity rhetoric"?

Is it practically speaking possible to have a public healthcare system or a pubic education system without examining "diversity" in those services?

Re: Which is the most ideologically diverse American city?

#50

Post by bryanlarsen » Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 12:29 PM UTC

skywhopper wrote: post #42

What I find interesting is that Tyler makes it all about his personal POV. Everyone _he_ talks to in Washington is obsessed with hour-by-hour politics. Everyone _he_ talks to in San Francisco and Seattle are obsessed with blockchain. But only in other places he's apparently never actually visited, he assumes, those people probably have "regular lives". The only thing this post shows is how insulated Tyler's own life…

You can accuse Tyler Cowen of many things, but accusing him of not visiting any particular place is probably going to back fire. He is quite well travelled, especially to places that aren't generally travelled to.