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Microsoft built its own custom Linux kernel for its new IoT service

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Re: Microsoft built its own custom Linux kernel for its new IoT service

#201

Post by rkangel »

_sh wrote: post #70
kelnos wrote: post #28

I'm confused: they're saying the devices have an ARM A7 chip (presumably they mean Cortex-A7) in them, which is a full 32-bit microprocessor, but they're calling them "microcontrollers"? I would think Windows could run on a Cortex-A7, no? Perhaps the specific parts they're using have a ridiculously-low clock rate or other painful limitations?

You're right, but there is a lot of misunderstanding around this end of the market, mainly because advances have blurred the traditional segmentation. When talking about ARM, the 'M' in Cortex-M means 'microcontroller' whereas the 'A' in Cortex-A means 'application'. Cortex-A systems are often at the centre of 'System-on-Chips' and will run linux, and indeed the NT kernel as well, as they are bundled with enough RAM…

> And who the hell can agree on just what 'embedded' means these days?

FWIW, my personal definition is "doesn't have an MMU"

Re: Microsoft built its own custom Linux kernel for its new IoT service

#202

Post by wor3q »

pjmlp wrote: post #134
tyingq wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. I am now curious about the demographics. How many Windows 10 users are there soley for either games or Photoshop, or Illustrator, for example? I instinctively feel like ChromeOS and OSX (and mobile OS variants) are going to kill Windows desktop off. But I'm also aware I might be off base.

Maybe on US. Around here ChromeOS is a kind of rare animal hardly seen on any consumer shop, and when it appears it is usually tied to some promotion to get rid of those in stock. OS X is everywhere on northen Europe big cities, but go south or to the country side where many people dream to go over the 500€ barrier and it too becomes a rare animal.

Even if you are over 500€, there is no 'just buy a Mac' attitude.

Maybe it's because a computer is a significant expense, so people value price/performance more,

or maybe because schools have Windows PCs and nobody is used to OSX from young age.

Re: Microsoft built its own custom Linux kernel for its new IoT service

#203

Post by bpye »

jlgaddis wrote: post #45
bpye wrote: post #13

The videos seem to show an MT3620 device, seems to be made by MediaTek [1]. Looks like they are targeting a Cortex-A7 + Cortex-M4 chip. First time I've seen an A series core in this type of chip. It looks like a developer gets to program the A7 and 2xM4F cores whilst the WiFi radio and Microsoft's "secure" Pluton thing run on a Andes N9 and Cortex M4 core respectively. I assume it is those cores which will be auto-up…

> The videos seem to show an MT3620 device, seems to be made by MediaTek [1]. Indeed. The article agrees with you and even goes as far as linking to the same URL that you did. :-)

My bad, didn't see the link in the article.

Re: Microsoft built its own custom Linux kernel for its new IoT service

#204

Post by mtgx »

derefr wrote: post #61
lsh wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you actually used Windows 10?? The spotlight is squarely on Facebook and it's privacy intrusions right now, but the data collection when you own the OS must be several orders of magnitude larger. Don't be so eager to forgive them. They're not hugging Linux right now because they're a Good Company trying to Do No Evil.

Have you used Windows 10 Server Core, or Windows 10 Enterprise LTSB? There's no data collection in either of those, because they're for serious people. The Home and Pro editions, meanwhile, are effectively "Xbox OS for PCs." They turn your computer into an entertainment appliance run and maintained by Microsoft itself. Of course they collect data, just like there are data-collection agents on all the nodes of your av…

Much of this comment seems like apologism to me. "Hey, it's bad, but I like Microsoft, so it's all good?"

Why would only people who pay $200 for a windows edition get (some) privacy?

Remember the days when the products you bought didn't spy on you? It seems like now companies are double-dipping or triple-dipping with this spying and selling of your data after you've already purchased the product/service.

And we're getting reconditioned to live with it and agree to it, especially from comments like yours.

Re: Microsoft built its own custom Linux kernel for its new IoT service

#206

Post by michaelt »

komali2 wrote: post #97
jesseryoung wrote: post #9

Am I missing something here? The custom linux kernel part isn't interesting at all - in fact, Microsoft has pretty much admitted they can't scale down Windows. What's interesting to me here is Microsoft is building an IoT solution that allows manufacturers to delegate security to Microsoft instead of having to roll their own.

"Don't roll your own security" has been the marching drum of an entire sector of IoT companies working within the connectivity "slice of the pie." The general mindset has been that iot has a couple slices: the "thing" (air conditioner vibration sensor), how that thing is connected (Ethernet plugged directly into a smart vibration sensor, or vibration sensor plugged into a connected data-recording device), the transmi…

  Let specialists specialize. No reason not to let
  big daddy Microsoft handle the messy bits.
If you're planning to make a product that will last 20 years - a residential thermostat, for example - using a third-party service as the foundation of your product seems naïve to me.

I mean, Microsoft or AWS is at least better than a startup, in that they're less likely to go bankrupt - but even Windows XP, one of most long-lived products out there, was only supported for 12 years even with 'extended support'.

Not to mention the fact whoever provides the cloud services will likely be looking to make recurring revenue over those 20 years.

Re: Microsoft built its own custom Linux kernel for its new IoT service

#208

Post by MikusR »

neko_koneko wrote: post #184
bjpbakker wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to blog posts and articles on tech sites there still is no way to disable all telemetry on windows 10. I don’t use windows for a long time now so I cannot tell myself. Anyhow, it is /not/ ok for an OS to spy on their users by default - even if you can disable it manually.

By the way, is there a list of things that Windows collects about computer/user activity?

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/configuration/windo...

Re: Microsoft built its own custom Linux kernel for its new IoT service

#210

Post by snvzz »

PaulHoule wrote: post #53
tyingq wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does. But, it's also pretty surreal for those of us that worked through the anti-linux Microsoft of the 90's. Windows subsystem for Linux, and initiatives like this are a real confirmation that MS finally "gets it". Right tool for the right job. Good for them. It's also a big swing for me in that I trust MS more than Google now to do the right thing. I'd have thought that impossible a couple of decades ago.

Linux is probably a more compact OS for IoT than Windows, but it is still pretty bloated.

I can't understand not using eChronos, seL4 or RTEMS.
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