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Goldman Sachs questions whether curing patients is a sustainable business model

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Re: Goldman Sachs questions whether curing patients is a sustainable business model

#371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If it wasn't, why has it taken this long for someone to take ownership of that huge pile of risk-free money Maybe because no one thought of it before? The picture you're painting is fine if you're evaluating a handful of candidate molecules each with, you'd guess, a 5% chance of having the right PK profile or something. But for major breakthroughs, there are "unknown unknowns" that make it impossible to estimate tha…

> They're not lottery tickets if they have incalculable odds. The odds aren't incalculable. They might have wide error margins, but that's hardly the same thing. > we don't have a cure because we just don't know how to do it, not because we were too cheap to invest in the biochemical trench warfare to find the right molecule. You're thinking about this at the wrong level of abstraction. It isn't a matter of having so…

> if you want a cure for cancer, you have to pay scientists to look for it.

We do that. It's a two-tier system where the public pays for the science and the companies fish ideas from the science to make into medicines.

>The fact that it's hard is the reason it's expensive.

No, the reason it is expensive is because we've signalled that we are willing to pay large amounts of money, essentially regardless of the actual benefit extended by the state of the art treatment. Even if the state of the science doesn't have much to offer in the way of a cure, you can count on the private sector to make drugs that push the envelope of what we are willing to pay.

But because the job that the private sector does is not the "rate limiting step" as it were, dumping more cash on them is just wasted money.

Re: Goldman Sachs questions whether curing patients is a sustainable business model

#372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Creating a public institution with no pressure to make profit is a disaster waiting to happen. This is the model many rich country healthcare runs on, and provides measurably better outcomes for less expenditure than the US.

lol you are acting like the rest of the world is developing medecines. The US market is the driving force for 95 percent of drugs developed worldwide, by a very, very wide margin. This is not random.

First: You're not wrong that the U.S. is a leader in pharma.

That being said, the only source I can find for your claim is a throwaway sentence in an op-ed on Forbes (https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2012/07/01/...).

I found some more realistic (and sourced) statistics here: http://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2010/11/09/whe...

That has the U.S. at 47% of drugs developed. Keep in mind those are based on drugs approved by the FDA, so it skews towards the U.S., and especially away from countries like Japan. Adjusted for population (I'm not entirely sure this is fair), that puts us neck-and-neck with the U.K., behind Israel, and far behind Switzerland.

Re: Goldman Sachs questions whether curing patients is a sustainable business model

#373
post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds cute, but isn't really true. In a competitive market, there is still an incentive to find cures. If company A has a treatment with the properties you describe on the market, and company B comes out with a cure, guess who's going to get all the business?

Not if both company A and B (correctly) assess that they will reap more profits by investing in chronic treatment even when a one-shot cure is possible.

This assumes A & B haven't both developed a cure and are holding it back until the other party releases their cure. Neither do because of the profits being made on the perpetual treatment, if either does then the other also releases a cure.

Re: Goldman Sachs questions whether curing patients is a sustainable business model

#374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They're not lottery tickets if they have incalculable odds. The odds aren't incalculable. They might have wide error margins, but that's hardly the same thing. > we don't have a cure because we just don't know how to do it, not because we were too cheap to invest in the biochemical trench warfare to find the right molecule. You're thinking about this at the wrong level of abstraction. It isn't a matter of having so…

> if you want a cure for cancer, you have to pay scientists to look for it. We do that. It's a two-tier system where the public pays for the science and the companies fish ideas from the science to make into medicines. >The fact that it's hard is the reason it's expensive. No, the reason it is expensive is because we've signalled that we are willing to pay large amounts of money, essentially regardless of the actual…

> No, the reason it is expensive is because we've signalled that we are willing to pay large amounts of money, essentially regardless of the actual benefit extended by the state of the art treatment.

Not the cost of medicine, the cost of medical research. If finding a cure for cancer wasn't expensive then either we've been doing something very wrong or we should have found it already.

And if it's expensive then the reward has to meet the expense in order to get someone to do it.

Re: Goldman Sachs questions whether curing patients is a sustainable business model

#375

And when you run out of patients to cure, just start making up new diseases to treat: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herpes_simplex#Society_and_cul... > Genital herpes simplex was not always stigmatised. It was merely a cold sore in an unusual place until the 1970s. As late as 1975, a study of "Psychological morbidity in a clinic for sexually transmitted disease" does not mention herpes simplex because at that time, n…

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Re: Goldman Sachs questions whether curing patients is a sustainable business model

#376

The 'ideal' drug from a business point of view not only not cures the patient long term, it offer a short term mitigation while increasing the risk on relapse and thus future recurring consumption of the treatment. At the same time it can be IP protected to block alternatives and has an insured third party collective payment coverage to guard against the treated running out of funds to afford the perpetual dependency…

Conventional medecine has become a criminal institution that can only be stopped if patient cease listening to dumb doctors who prescribe things like chemo that obviously makes one sick. We should take more care of ourselves and study things like Ryke Geerd Hamer's New Medecine.
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