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Ask HN: What makes a job posting attractive?

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Re: Ask HN: What makes a job posting attractive?

#11
For me, it's not what attracts me, but what turns me away.

For example, if I'm looking for a Python job, than any job regarding Python is of immediate interest. That's all that's necessary on the attraction side of it.

Things that keep me from applying for jobs are, in no particular order: using the word "Rockstar", mentioning how difficult things are or how quick they are, mandating requirements that don't really matter (college degree required! skill not important), vague details, trying to sound too cool or fun to work with.

My advice would be to sit down with someone else there and tell them about the job. Tell them what you're looking for, what you offer and any important details. Actually have a conversation with them about this. Record it. You'll have the basis for an honest job post in conversational tone that tells potential employees exactly what you want.

Re: Ask HN: What makes a job posting attractive?

#12
To incent right job seekers to respond, I think it's a function of making it interesting on 2 fronts:

1. The job itself - Will the person be solving or doing interesting things? 2. The company - Does the company have a clear vision and seemingly a chance of success? Evidence of traction here can help, i.e. being a YC startup, press, etc.

I think gimmicks and attempts to make a job description "stand out" through wit, humor, etc may work, but they don't always register with everyone and can miss altogether at times. Not worth the risk (esp as as a first attempt IMO)

Re: Ask HN: What makes a job posting attractive?

#13
Random thoughts from when I write job reqs:

Make sure there is a clear description of the job itself and what the challenges the company and the role itself are trying to solve ("Looking for Ruby on Rails devs, call us!" doesn't explain what problems you'll be solving, etc). GOOD developers don't look for a new job using X, Y and Z languages, they look for a new job tackling problems A, B, and C.

Don't include requirements that are superfluous, unless you can really justify them. "Must have 5 years experience" - why? I know devs with 2 years experience that will kick the shit out of a 10 year vet. "Must be capable to lead a small dev team" or "Experience with several discrete projects a must to be able to advise from experience on architecture choices" is better.

Ditto with CS degrees: don't mandate one unless there is a good reason.

Be clear yourself with what the role is going to be: are you looking for an engineer or a support guy, dev ops, etc? "Spray and Pray" is not a strategy and looking for that experienced engineer who is fluent with UX and design while also able to administrate the production servers and load balancers is going to net you people who know nothing about anything.

State the current stage + status of the company "pre-funded", "series a funded", "profitable". Different people are attracted to different stages (and the risk that goes with them) so be clear in the job req to pre-filter those who are not. An engineer with a wife and two young kids is unlikely to take your job at your pre-funded startup so be clear where you are.

Don't use words like "rockstar", "code-ninja" or guru. You come across looking like a dick - and far worse, that I might actually end up working with someone who really thinks and behaves like he is a "rockstar" because he was hired as one.

Be clear with your methodologies, coding practices (pair programming, peer code review, etc) and anything else that will make you look attractive. Consider getting some before you post your ad if you don't currently have any (why do I want to go work in chaos?).

State where you are located, and not just "San Francisco" (for example). Mention the neighborhood or even the building. People living in East Bay are going to want to know if they can BART in, South Bayers will want to know how bad the drive will be ONCE they get into the city/if they can CalTrain and even locals are going to turn their nose up at your Outer Sunset location if they're paying through the nose to live in SoMa. I also want to know what kind of community there is around my potential work place ("We're in Twitter's building", "we hang out in South Park most lunchtimes"). Also state if telecommute is an option.

Don't forget to mention benefits (or state if there are none yet) - even geeks in their mid-twenties want to know if you are going to cover their dental. Same for stock, you don't have to mention remuneration specifics but be clear if the remuneration will include stock, and be especially clear if you are looking to offer a package that is "equity heavy" (ie below market $ salary). Again, this will filter out people who are not suitable for that situation and manage expectation of those that enquire.

Include photos of your work place, even if you just have basic digs (which is fine if you are early stage) You can tell a lot about a startup and a job from looking a their offices.

Don't use recruiters. Do I have to explain why?

But my best tip of all:

You/your founders should be spending a large amount of your time curating your network such that you don't need to put out job reqs because you can simply hire from your network.

Also don't be afraid to simply identify developers in existing startups and reach out to them directly - they may not be actively looking but will entertain your interest (and perhaps) subsequent job offer. Even in this economy (in Bay Area, at least) good developers are seldom out of work so be prepared to poach rather than search the job seeker pool.

Re: Ask HN: What makes a job posting attractive?

#14
post #13

Random thoughts from when I write job reqs: Make sure there is a clear description of the job itself and what the challenges the company and the role itself are trying to solve ("Looking for Ruby on Rails devs, call us!" doesn't explain what problems you'll be solving, etc). GOOD developers don't look for a new job using X, Y and Z languages, they look for a new job tackling problems A, B, and C. Don't include requir…

These are all great points; I'd most like to second "be clear with your methodologies". You've gotta be honest here. In particular, don't say Agile when you're not actually following an Agile methodolgy (the number of companies to whom 'agile' simply means "we don't do any planning"...). I've worked for companies that aren't Agile, who also never do unit testing, let alone TDD, and yet manage to be successful. I'm not necessarily put off because I don't see those things in a job posting.

Claiming these methodologies when the reality is different is just going to lead to disillusionment (and no, 'in the near future' doesn't count)

Re: Ask HN: What makes a job posting attractive?

#15
Hiring has to be pertinent to what you are doing...

For me "equity" or "equity plus small amount of cash" generally means you are looking for volunteer labor. I've done a bit of this, but generally most postings of this nature are of the "we want you to work for free" nature.

I avoid them.

Re: Ask HN: What makes a job posting attractive?

#16
I've seen a lot of people asking for a description of the problems the position will be addressing. Discussions with clients over the past couple of years have led me to understand that in some cases, companies don't put out many specifics because what they want you to work on is a bit of a competitive advantage (in some cases this is even justified). Letting your competitors know you're hiring to build system XYZ to do ABC gives them a heads-up as to what's coming down the line.

Granted, this isn't the case in all or even most postings that are vague. But if other aspects look legit, but the posting is a bit vague, give them a little 'benefit of the doubt'.

Re: Ask HN: What makes a job posting attractive?

#17
A job posting is attractive if a friend who works at the company IMs you about the job, tells you how great it would be to work together, and then casually includes the link so that you can get some background information and feel prepared when you go in for your interview.

I always have trouble writing job descriptions because I feel like the default approach boils down to writing marketing copy for people who think job postings are full of shit. I bet, it'd be easier if I just put myself in the frame of mind of answering, "what information do I want the candidate to be prepared for when they come in for an interview?"

Re: Ask HN: What makes a job posting attractive?

#18
It's actually a huge plus for me if the company takes the time to put a novel programming puzzle in the post. It says a few things:

1. this wasn't posted by a recruiter or somebody clueless in h.r.

2. engineers at this company still care about hiring

3. a lot of buzzword bombing b.s. artists aren't going to be applying

4. the company recognizes that raw aptitude is more important than bullet list bingo

In other words, it's a sign that the engineering culture is probably still healthy at this company.

Re: Ask HN: What makes a job posting attractive?

#19
Some things good programmers care:

* good engineering practices (as all those described in books like "Pragmatic Programmer" and "Code Complete": code reviews, unit testing, continuous integration, coding standards)

* tools worth respect (e.g.: subversion, git or mercurial but not Visual Source Safe)

* a well defined development & project management methodology, agile or not (e.g.Scrum, RUP), instead of clueless project managers.

* a concrete problem/puzzle in the company website to filter out bad candidates

* respect for the developer private life; i.e: what to expect in overtime work

Re: Ask HN: What makes a job posting attractive?

#20

It's actually a huge plus for me if the company takes the time to put a novel programming puzzle in the post. It says a few things: 1. this wasn't posted by a recruiter or somebody clueless in h.r. 2. engineers at this company still care about hiring 3. a lot of buzzword bombing b.s. artists aren't going to be applying 4. the company recognizes that raw aptitude is more important than bullet list bingo In other words…

One of the things I learned nearly 20 years ago is that it sucks to work in shops where the engineers are arrogant, because the more arrogant the less likely any good engineering is tolerated.

These kinds of puzzles communicate arrogance to me. They say "We're more interested in excluding you based on a trick question than in getting to know you".

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