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Teenager facing prison for downloading unsecured files from government website

cbc.ca

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Re: Teenager facing prison for downloading unsecured files from government website

#101

Post by EpicEng »

rayiner wrote: post #94
sbarre wrote: post #4

This reads like the beginning of The Hacker Crackdown.. As a Canadian, reading this article made me angry. If the information is not supposed to be public, it should not be reachable without authorization or authentication. Never mind a curious 19-year-old, there are tons of crawlers and indexers out there that attempt to enumerate URLs where they think there might be other content. Shame on them for building a poorl…

This seems more like a failure to develop proper social norms with regard to Internet information. > If the information is not supposed to be public, it should not be reachable without authorization or authentication. I don't lock my car, and often not my house either. I don't think that means you should be able to snoop around and see what interests you. Websites are private property. It is obvious what parts you're…

>I don't lock my car, and often not my house either. I don't think that means you should be able to snoop around and see what interests you. Websites are private property

Here's a better analogy; you put up a "yard sale" sign in your front yard, fill the driveway with property, and then call the police on the first person who shows up claiming they are trespassing.

Re: Teenager facing prison for downloading unsecured files from government website

#102

Post by [deleted] »

eboyjr wrote: post #64
dustingetz wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i can see how the older generation is thinking though, they see it like leaving a window unlocked doesn’t mean you can the laws are interpreted and applied by powerful people in a way that suits the way they think - that much i think could have been predicted (but not by a teenager) did the weev ruling surprise anybody other than hackers?

Since it helps the older generation to think about digital content in metaphors, I'd argue that the kid was entering through an open window of a public building. Although a bit strange, no one would give this hypothetical person a third look.

[deleted]

Re: Teenager facing prison for downloading unsecured files from government website

#103

Post by reificator »

rayiner wrote: post #94
sbarre wrote: post #4

This reads like the beginning of The Hacker Crackdown.. As a Canadian, reading this article made me angry. If the information is not supposed to be public, it should not be reachable without authorization or authentication. Never mind a curious 19-year-old, there are tons of crawlers and indexers out there that attempt to enumerate URLs where they think there might be other content. Shame on them for building a poorl…

This seems more like a failure to develop proper social norms with regard to Internet information. > If the information is not supposed to be public, it should not be reachable without authorization or authentication. I don't lock my car, and often not my house either. I don't think that means you should be able to snoop around and see what interests you. Websites are private property. It is obvious what parts you're…

I assume you also don't park your car in an area where millions of people can access it in the same second with no cost to them.

It's really not a reasonable comparison.

Re: Teenager facing prison for downloading unsecured files from government website

#105

Post by gburt »

WestCoastJustin wrote: post #89

I've contacted the reporter to see if we can setup a legal fund for this guy. It sounds like he's being bullied. This could also get a very bad precedent in Canada as this is totally absurd.

Please keep us informed on the outcome. I have written a letter to my MP and MLA as well as the MP for Halifax.

Re: Teenager facing prison for downloading unsecured files from government website

#106

Post by mr_toad »

politician wrote: post #18

Add "help avoid sending teenagers to prison" to the list of reasons why you should prefer UUIDs over integers in your Internet-facing REST API. This API was supposed to be private and yet supported trivial enumeration?

UUID are easily shared, and there is no way of knowing who shared it. Good for Xmas photos, not so good for sensitive documents.

Re: Teenager facing prison for downloading unsecured files from government website

#107

Post by clouddrover »

rayiner wrote: post #94
sbarre wrote: post #4

This reads like the beginning of The Hacker Crackdown.. As a Canadian, reading this article made me angry. If the information is not supposed to be public, it should not be reachable without authorization or authentication. Never mind a curious 19-year-old, there are tons of crawlers and indexers out there that attempt to enumerate URLs where they think there might be other content. Shame on them for building a poorl…

This seems more like a failure to develop proper social norms with regard to Internet information. > If the information is not supposed to be public, it should not be reachable without authorization or authentication. I don't lock my car, and often not my house either. I don't think that means you should be able to snoop around and see what interests you. Websites are private property. It is obvious what parts you're…

But the difference is that a website is built to be publicly accessible on the public internet.

Your car, presumably, is not offered as a public resource.

Re: Teenager facing prison for downloading unsecured files from government website

#108

Post by rayiner »

dustingetz wrote: post #48
sbarre wrote: post #4

This reads like the beginning of The Hacker Crackdown.. As a Canadian, reading this article made me angry. If the information is not supposed to be public, it should not be reachable without authorization or authentication. Never mind a curious 19-year-old, there are tons of crawlers and indexers out there that attempt to enumerate URLs where they think there might be other content. Shame on them for building a poorl…

i can see how the older generation is thinking though, they see it like leaving a window unlocked doesn’t mean you can the laws are interpreted and applied by powerful people in a way that suits the way they think - that much i think could have been predicted (but not by a teenager) did the weev ruling surprise anybody other than hackers?

The "older generation" does not use metaphors because they are limited in their thinking. They do it to illustrate the principles underlying law. A basic principle of private property is that you don't have to secure it. The burden is on the would-be trespasser to figure out what rights she has with respect to the property and act accordingly. Snooping around private property out of "curiosity" is illegal, whether or not there are locks preventing you from doing so. (This is an idea teenagers have had trouble with long before the Internet, but we manage to beat it out of them every generation).

Those principles apply equally well to the Internet. Ordinary law-abiding people don't go fiddling with URLs, just like law-abiding people don't jiggle door handles or peak into windows to satisfy their curiosity.

Re: Teenager facing prison for downloading unsecured files from government website

#109

Post by walrus01 »

dv_dt wrote: post #40
sbarre wrote: post #4

This reads like the beginning of The Hacker Crackdown.. As a Canadian, reading this article made me angry. If the information is not supposed to be public, it should not be reachable without authorization or authentication. Never mind a curious 19-year-old, there are tons of crawlers and indexers out there that attempt to enumerate URLs where they think there might be other content. Shame on them for building a poorl…

Is there a Canadian version of the EFF, or does the EFF have an Canadian branch?

Not exactly, but the University of Toronto Citizen Lab is pretty close: https://citizenlab.ca/

It's not all domestic oriented, they do a lot of research on internet censorship internationally, and other things that fall into the category of "government interference with the internet".

https://citizenlab.ca/about/

"The Citizen Lab is an interdisciplinary laboratory based at the Munk School of Global Affairs, University of Toronto, focusing on research, development, and high-level strategic policy and legal engagement at the intersection of information and communication technologies, human rights, and global security.

We use a “mixed methods” approach to research combining practices from political science, law, computer science, and area studies. Our research includes: investigating digital espionage against civil society, documenting Internet filtering and other technologies and practices that impact freedom of expression online, analyzing privacy, security, and information controls of popular applications, and examining transparency and accountability mechanisms relevant to the relationship between corporations and state agencies regarding personal data and other surveillance activities."

Re: Teenager facing prison for downloading unsecured files from government website

#110

Post by Simulacra »

This is very sad. Any information that is not secured, and thus CAN be accessed, should be considered publicly available. If that rule or precedent were in place (a law would never happen) it might force system owners to be more cautious.
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