Ask HN: What makes a job posting attractive?

#1

Post by bkrausz » Mon, Sep 13, 2010, 2:25 AM UTC

While writing the job description for GazeHawk (P.S.-we're hiring PHP/Python/UX hackers - brian AT gazehawk.com) I realized that most job descriptions are generic and boring.

I'm wondering what attracts you guys to a particular job posting?

Do job postings even matter beyond that fact that company X is hiring? Does a posting with descriptions of the company culture, future plans, values, etc actually mean more than "PHP/Python hacker for YC startup"?

Looking forward to your feedback!

Re: Ask HN: What makes a job posting attractive?

#2

Post by integraleq » Mon, Sep 13, 2010, 2:44 AM UTC

I personally look for a neat collection of tasks that I would be performing as well as a required skill set that I actually have. I used to really want to do telecommuting, but have since backed out of that desire since it tends to give your fellow employees license to frown at your ability to not have to be in the office. I also like posts that are not a generic list of incomprehensible gibberish. I will say that it seems even the most bland-sounding of companies have 11/12 these days on joelonsoftware. What's that all about? Has every company become "that company"? I joke of course. All tangents aside, these are the kinds of things I look for.

Re: Ask HN: What makes a job posting attractive?

#3

Post by mmmmax » Mon, Sep 13, 2010, 2:45 AM UTC

I think it's much different for established companies vs. unestablished companies. As someone at a startup which hasn't launched yet, we have to be more descriptive. If you're YC company, or more established - maybe it's enough to say Acme Corp, PHP, email us.

We like to say:

Funded startup looking for a talented Ruby developer to be employee #1 (because that's true, and because there's something unique about being employee #1).

Re: Ask HN: What makes a job posting attractive?

#4

Post by brm » Mon, Sep 13, 2010, 2:50 AM UTC

Realism. Nothing is more bothersome than buzzwords and bulleted lists of cross-disciplinary requirements that no person you would actually want on your team could fill.

Speak Human.

Re: Ask HN: What makes a job posting attractive?

#5

Post by japherwocky » Mon, Sep 13, 2010, 2:53 AM UTC

I look for the language stack I'm prefer (because I chose it for a reason), and a business model that seems sane and interesting.

Phone interviews are pretty cheap, and a quicker way to see if cultures / values / etc. line up, imho.

Re: Ask HN: What makes a job posting attractive?

#6

Post by kd0amg » Mon, Sep 13, 2010, 3:01 AM UTC

First, I look to see if the work interests me (not giving a description makes me unlikely to continue). Then I look to see whether it is a reasonable (not necessarily perfect) match with my skillset and availability. Any posting I see that meets the above will probably convince me to look into it further. Relocating, even temporarily, does not bother me, though it is nice to know the location in question.

Do job postings even matter beyond that fact that company X is hiring?

Yes. A single company probably has some (perhaps a lot of) variety in the positions for which they're hiring and the work they'd give to the new hires.

Does a posting with descriptions of the company culture, future plans, values, etc actually mean more than "PHP/Python hacker for YC startup"?

No. I've seen it in a couple postings and pretty much just skimmed over it and got frustrated that I couldn't find the information mentioned earlier, but "PHP/Python hacker for YC startup" doesn't really get my attention either.

Re: Ask HN: What makes a job posting attractive?

#7

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Sep 13, 2010, 3:01 AM UTC

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: What makes a job posting attractive?

#8

Post by bretthoerner » Mon, Sep 13, 2010, 3:05 AM UTC

A good start: show that you pass as many Joel tests as possible

http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000043.html

Re: Ask HN: What makes a job posting attractive?

#9

Post by habith » Mon, Sep 13, 2010, 3:08 AM UTC

Answer these questions:

- Who are you?

I need to research a company before I send you my work DNA (a.k.a. resume`). Are you a spammer? Are you some recruiting company building a resume`s database?

Be honest and avoid snake-oil salesmen terms like "Company in the bay area with a huge upside". If I work for you, I have to believe in your vision as much (if not more) as you do and I can't do that without doing due diligence and researching your company.

If you are not well established yet, then a brief description of what you do and what your vision is always helps (in your case, a link to your site should suffice).

- What do you need from me? / What does your technology stack look like?

Be very specific about must haves and "would be nice"es. You can discourage a lot of potential candidates by putting a laundry list of technologies that you're thinking about (or worse, toying with the idea of) implementing in the future but are in no way what you need from a candidate right now.

- What is your compensation package?

Not always feasible to write in detail, but putting a salary range is a huge plus. A phone interview + a couple of on-site interviews (taking time off of my current job) to be told that your maximum offer is worth $20k less than what I make right now is a waste of everyone's time.

Aside from that, everything else is just fluff in my opinion. Good luck!

Edit: Formatting. Where's the preview button?

Re: Ask HN: What makes a job posting attractive?

#10

Post by mahmud » Mon, Sep 13, 2010, 3:09 AM UTC

It's not just what makes them attractive, but also what doesn't make them suck.

The biggest turnoff is the sight of stringent, fascist language for benign requirements that can be met by anyone who bothers to do a basic preparation. "MUST be able to come to an in-person interview. Do NOT apply if you can't come in" -- why is that even a requirement for an on-site job?

Other gems are:

Equating completely unrelated qualifications "Minimum: masters in computer science, or Red Hat certification".

Being sticklers for dipshit, minor-celebrity tools that anyone with half a brain can pickup on their taxi ride to the interview: "MUST be able to use JIRA/Trac/Redmine/Bugzilla; MINIMUM 10 years".

Offering me $30/hr, with no other benefits, while enticing me with the usual fare of juvenile delights: pop soda and foosball. Specially when you're the 40 y.o subsidiary of a Fortune 500 conglomerate.

Hiring for systems design or knowledge transfer, while insisting on specific tools to be used: "we need a consultant to advice us on global on-demand video advertising delivery, and recommend architecture and design insights .. MINIMUM 10 years Oracle. 10 Years Java. 10 years Perl. 10 years C++. 10 years Sybase. MS Office. Photoshop. Batchfiles" .. you can just tell whoever wrote this has no clue what the solution might entail, so he adds everything he remembers from MIS 101, and requires it all from the guy who will be most likely working with biz analysts and delivering nothing more requirement documents, and possible the first few job ads for the future team lead and project manager.