Amazon warehouse workers 'peed in bottles' fearing punishment for taking breaks • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon warehouse workers 'peed in bottles' fearing punishment for taking breaks

#341

Post by wombatpm » Mon, Apr 16, 2018, 5:47 PM UTC

gimmeDatCheddar wrote: post #306

CamTin wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't find a way that $500 per month adds up to "multi-million dollar net worth". Even at a very optimistic 10% return rate, it comes to just over 1.1 million over thirty years. What assumptions are you making in your calculation to come up with 2million+ at retirement from $500 per month of savings?

$500 a month is $6000 a year. $6000 a year invested from 26 to 66 at 10% interest per year is $2,921,110.87. At 12% it's $5,154,854.34. Keep in mind this is just from a single decision the average person is making.

And isn't that 10% and 12 % growth assumption the reason all pensions are in trouble?

Re: Amazon warehouse workers 'peed in bottles' fearing punishment for taking breaks

#342

Post by phinnaeus » Mon, Apr 16, 2018, 5:49 PM UTC

gimmeDatCheddar wrote: post #306

CamTin wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't find a way that $500 per month adds up to "multi-million dollar net worth". Even at a very optimistic 10% return rate, it comes to just over 1.1 million over thirty years. What assumptions are you making in your calculation to come up with 2million+ at retirement from $500 per month of savings?

$500 a month is $6000 a year. $6000 a year invested from 26 to 66 at 10% interest per year is $2,921,110.87. At 12% it's $5,154,854.34. Keep in mind this is just from a single decision the average person is making.

Just for clarification, where is 10% interest coming from? Mutual funds? 401k? Something else?

Serious question, I am not financially knowledgeable but I know you'd never get 10% interest in a savings account (for example).

Re: Amazon warehouse workers 'peed in bottles' fearing punishment for taking breaks

#343

Post by amvalo » Mon, Apr 16, 2018, 5:49 PM UTC

gimmeDatCheddar wrote: post #306

CamTin wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't find a way that $500 per month adds up to "multi-million dollar net worth". Even at a very optimistic 10% return rate, it comes to just over 1.1 million over thirty years. What assumptions are you making in your calculation to come up with 2million+ at retirement from $500 per month of savings?

$500 a month is $6000 a year. $6000 a year invested from 26 to 66 at 10% interest per year is $2,921,110.87. At 12% it's $5,154,854.34. Keep in mind this is just from a single decision the average person is making.

WTF kind of fairy land is this? 10% is already a dream, but at least it's a round number, unlike the 12% you just arbitrarily threw out there.

Re: Amazon warehouse workers 'peed in bottles' fearing punishment for taking breaks

#344

Post by piracykills » Mon, Apr 16, 2018, 5:49 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #336

piracykills wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a very niche problem in comparison - we're talking hundreds of millions of people leaving poverty across the globe compared to under hundreds of thousands dying of opioid overdoses. Perhaps it's because I'm not American, but I just don't find it that concerning when put into the larger picture.

Perhaps you not finding it concerning emphasizes the problem. As an American, it greatly concerns me. It’s also why populism and nationalism have taken hold in first world countries.

That some tiny portion of the deaths in your country are from opioid overdoses? People voluntarily injecting themselves with drugs and fucking up? Why exactly does this concern you so much? It's hard to see it as representative of a larger systemic problem beyond the American drug enforcement and medical systems resulting in over-prescription of opioids and fenantly entering common usage. Not much beyond that, is there? I don't see a larger trend to extrapolate from that.

Re: Amazon warehouse workers 'peed in bottles' fearing punishment for taking breaks

#345

Post by bbddg » Mon, Apr 16, 2018, 5:49 PM UTC

noonespecial wrote: post #87

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #47

My fear is that the future of work for most people is not unemployment, but shitty jobs like this. My feeling is that in order to avoid this and prosper, the people need to own the robots that do all the work (Marxism heyy). If robots provide huge productivity gains, then they will provide those gains for their owners. If it’s the big corporations that own them, they will see the gains. But as long as people are trea…

But I do already own some of the robots. I have Amazon stock in my 401k. That's what "the people owning the robots" looks like. What you're getting at is that there are many people right now who are too poor (and are going to be too poor) to ever own any part of the robots. This century's great debate is forming up to be whether or not we should give them some anyway even though they can't "earn" it for whatever movi…

Well maybe the problem is that you own part of the company instead of the people who actually work there.

Re: Amazon warehouse workers 'peed in bottles' fearing punishment for taking breaks

#346

Post by ummonk » Mon, Apr 16, 2018, 5:49 PM UTC

gimmeDatCheddar wrote: post #306

CamTin wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't find a way that $500 per month adds up to "multi-million dollar net worth". Even at a very optimistic 10% return rate, it comes to just over 1.1 million over thirty years. What assumptions are you making in your calculation to come up with 2million+ at retirement from $500 per month of savings?

$500 a month is $6000 a year. $6000 a year invested from 26 to 66 at 10% interest per year is $2,921,110.87. At 12% it's $5,154,854.34. Keep in mind this is just from a single decision the average person is making.

So you're expecting people to make 10-12% in after-inflation returns?

Re: Amazon warehouse workers 'peed in bottles' fearing punishment for taking breaks

#347

Post by ytNumbers » Mon, Apr 16, 2018, 5:50 PM UTC

hfdgiutdryg wrote: post #266

gimmeDatCheddar wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you know what most people DO own? Unnecessary consumer debt that stunts their ability to save and invest. When the average car payment in America is around $500 a month, it's clear evidence that people have a spending problem rather than an income problem. Here's an idea: Teach people not to finance $500 worth of car each month (plus gas, plus insurance, plus maintenance, plus healthcare costs) and suddenly peopl…

Teach people not to finance $500 worth of car each month (plus gas, plus insurance, plus maintenance How? Keep in mind, I drive a car I bought for $1700 cash and I've restored and maintained it with my own hands. Most people don't have the time, knowledge, tools, or space to maintain an older car, so a new car with a warranty is a smart move. New cars are safer and more fuel efficient. They last longer than ever befo…

I have concluded that, in the USA, most ordinary folks have, much to their detriment, never heard of Dave Ramsey.

https://www.daveramsey.com/blog/the-truth-about-car-payments

Re: Amazon warehouse workers 'peed in bottles' fearing punishment for taking breaks

#348

Post by syshum » Mon, Apr 16, 2018, 5:50 PM UTC

sjg007 wrote: post #324

tsnont34nt wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you post a reference to that $500 number? I find that hard to believe. I was leasing a luxury car for around $400/mo a few years ago. What kinds of cars are average Americans leasing? Rolls Royces?

$500 a month is basically a 4 year loan on a $20k car. That's a lot in a real sense but not a lot today in terms of a car. The only good thing is that cars post 2002 seem to be more way more reliable on average, however, finding low mileage cars is difficult. Suburbans/minivans and other family transport vehicles tend to hold their value fairly well (except maybe Dodge minivans)...

> The only good thing is that cars post 2002 seem to be more way more reliable on average

The manufacturers needed to make them last more than 100K because most of the manufacturers are closely if not directly tied to the financing, and if they wanted to make loans at high interest and 96mos they needed a car that would last at least long enough to cover the majority of new 65+ mo loans people are getting.

Re: Amazon warehouse workers 'peed in bottles' fearing punishment for taking breaks

#349

Post by frgtpsswrdlame » Mon, Apr 16, 2018, 5:50 PM UTC

gimmeDatCheddar wrote: post #249

ihm wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Around 80% of stock is owned by the top 10% wealthiest individuals[1]. More recent work[2] puts the percentage even higher. You might own some of the robots but most people don't. [1]: https://appam.confex.com/appam/2012/webprogram/ExtendedAbstr... [2]: http://time.com/money/5054009/stock-ownership-10-percent-ric...

But you know what most people DO own? Unnecessary consumer debt that stunts their ability to save and invest. When the average car payment in America is around $500 a month, it's clear evidence that people have a spending problem rather than an income problem. Here's an idea: Teach people not to finance $500 worth of car each month (plus gas, plus insurance, plus maintenance, plus healthcare costs) and suddenly peopl…

You're really misusing that figure, here is the quote from the article you linked below:

>The average new car payment in America has crept above the $500 per month mark for the fist time, settling in at $503, according to a recent study by Experian.

and here's your statement:

>When the average car payment in America is around $500 a month

See the mismatch? This is not evidence that people (especially poor ones) are overspending on cars. It doesn't say anything about people without car payments, people with used cars, people who bought outright or even how many people exist in those categories. Besides I just put $500/month on a 5 year auto loan into googles calculator and I got a cost of $27,751. This isn't exactly an extravagant purchase for a new car.

Besides this notion that most people will ever be able to cut their expenses enough to "amass multiple millions of dollars in investments over their working career" is just painfully out of touch.

Re: Amazon warehouse workers 'peed in bottles' fearing punishment for taking breaks

#350

Post by toomuchtodo » Mon, Apr 16, 2018, 5:50 PM UTC

piracykills wrote: post #344

toomuchtodo wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps you not finding it concerning emphasizes the problem. As an American, it greatly concerns me. It’s also why populism and nationalism have taken hold in first world countries.

That some tiny portion of the deaths in your country are from opioid overdoses? People voluntarily injecting themselves with drugs and fucking up? Why exactly does this concern you so much? It's hard to see it as representative of a larger systemic problem beyond the American drug enforcement and medical systems resulting in over-prescription of opioids and fenantly entering common usage. Not much beyond that, is the…

The opioid epidemic is a symptom of underlying socioeconomic and societal issues. That is why it concerns me so greatly. It’s a canary in the coal mine, if you will.