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Ketamine has 'fast-acting benefits' for depression

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Ketamine has 'fast-acting benefits' for depression

#141

Post by themodelplumber »

amelius wrote: post #55
themodelplumber wrote: post #15

Ketamine is an anesthetic. Has anyone compared it to e.g. ibuprofen for this use case? Ibuprofen works very well for me when experiencing depressive symptoms. I'm down to about 2h max per depressive episode (logged at 10-30 depressing thoughts per minute, compared to none after). Mechanism intuitively "feels" inflammatory and looking at my logs seems related to exhaustion due to over-productivity, lack of rest, etc.

Warning for long-term ibuprofen users: https://www.nhs.uk/news/medication/ibuprofen-linked-testoste...

Thank you. I'm not sure what to make of the study itself, but that is one of the most approachable write-ups I've ever read.

Re: Ketamine has 'fast-acting benefits' for depression

#142

Post by NeutronStar »

rincebrain wrote: post #140

I've posted this in other ketamine news stories before, but I'm offering it as a firsthand testimonial here. Ketamine was both the best and most depressing depression treatment option I've ever tried. Within a couple of weeks after having had the initial round of six treatments in two weeks, I was the most functional and productive human being I've _ever_ been - things that used to be impossible or utterly agonizing…

Imho, dissos are for short term depression fixing, you need them psychedelics to open your mind for long term.

Re: Ketamine has 'fast-acting benefits' for depression

#143

Post by Fnoord »

logfromblammo wrote: post #137
Fnoord wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although I don't disagree with your point, that wasn't my point. My point is that these things have different aspects (some of which are arguably useful, some perhaps in your eyes less so or not) but removing them has serious consequences. It is easy to be against something (for example, paying taxes) but removing taxation has serious consequences which have to be accounted for.

Keeping them as they are also has serious consequences that are rarely examined, or even raised for consideration. The public interest is for medical treatments to have the following qualities: safe, effective, affordable. The business interest for healthcare providers is for medical treatments to have the following property: profitable. Those interests only partially overlap. It is possible to imagine many different…

> Keeping them as they are also has serious consequences that are rarely examined, or even raised for consideration.

Yes, but the burden of proof lies with those who prefer an alternative. If you want to demonstrate an alternative is better, you need an honest and in depth comparison with the current. Just saying "the current sucks" isn't an argument.

I do agree it is difficult for drugs like ketamine, psilocybin, and MDMA(/MDA/MDE/etc) to get research funding, but that doesn't mean the current options are useless; we know they are useful, just not in every case. Nor does it mean that those mentioned drugs are better; we do not know.

Re: Ketamine has 'fast-acting benefits' for depression

#144

Post by nylonstrung »

rincebrain wrote: post #140

I've posted this in other ketamine news stories before, but I'm offering it as a firsthand testimonial here. Ketamine was both the best and most depressing depression treatment option I've ever tried. Within a couple of weeks after having had the initial round of six treatments in two weeks, I was the most functional and productive human being I've _ever_ been - things that used to be impossible or utterly agonizing…

Ketamine and its analogs are known to have a rapidly developing and profoundly durable (some even say permanent) tolerance, and I find this is often glossed over, especially when studies don't evaluate it over a long enough time period

I think Ketamine itself isn't a real solution but hopefully some of the isolated metabolites will be

Re: Ketamine has 'fast-acting benefits' for depression

#145

Post by nylonstrung »

swarnie_ wrote: post #27
mathieuh wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a chemist either but as someone who as partaken and knows other people who have also partaken, the dosages you have to take in order for this to become an issue are way beyond what would seem reasonable for someone who's not heavily dependent and tolerant. You would have to be taking grams and grams of the stuff on the regular; infrequent or one-off dosages won't cause bladder damage. Edit: even in the articl…

15g a day is a truly insane amount, i'm shocked the person mentioned didn't die... I've known 1/2 a gram leave people catatonic for hours.

Insufflating 15G of anything is physical a feat in and of itself

Re: Ketamine has 'fast-acting benefits' for depression

#146

Post by nylonstrung »

themodelplumber wrote: post #15

Ketamine is an anesthetic. Has anyone compared it to e.g. ibuprofen for this use case? Ibuprofen works very well for me when experiencing depressive symptoms. I'm down to about 2h max per depressive episode (logged at 10-30 depressing thoughts per minute, compared to none after). Mechanism intuitively "feels" inflammatory and looking at my logs seems related to exhaustion due to over-productivity, lack of rest, etc.

https://www.psychologicalscience.org/news/releases/experienc...

Ibuprofen actually does work, believe it or not.

Re: Ketamine has 'fast-acting benefits' for depression

#147

Post by salvar »

OldSchoolJohnny wrote: post #89
pjc50 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know exercise is good for depression, but this is an extremely patronising response to someone else's description of their medical treatment.

Well that'll teach that poor bastard to ask a question here, good job!

Is it possible to ask a question in a patronising way?

Re: Ketamine has 'fast-acting benefits' for depression

#148

Post by rincebrain »

nylonstrung wrote: post #144
rincebrain wrote: post #140

I've posted this in other ketamine news stories before, but I'm offering it as a firsthand testimonial here. Ketamine was both the best and most depressing depression treatment option I've ever tried. Within a couple of weeks after having had the initial round of six treatments in two weeks, I was the most functional and productive human being I've _ever_ been - things that used to be impossible or utterly agonizing…

Ketamine and its analogs are known to have a rapidly developing and profoundly durable (some even say permanent) tolerance, and I find this is often glossed over, especially when studies don't evaluate it over a long enough time period I think Ketamine itself isn't a real solution but hopefully some of the isolated metabolites will be

Yeah, I would hope that we find more durable solutions.

I know some people have been on it for an extended interval without any sort of tolerance problem, which is how I initially heard about it firsthand, so it's one more of those strange biochemistry things that's inconsistent, because of course it is.

The interesting thing, to me, would be figuring out what the method of action is for the effect, in order to replicate it in other drugs, but we'll see.

(I'm also curious whether repeating the dense dosages would be effective again for me now, over a year later, or whether the tolerance would be, indeed, permanent.)

Re: Ketamine has 'fast-acting benefits' for depression

#149

Post by rincebrain »

toomanybeersies wrote: post #95
mabbo wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We pay $375 for a 40-minute infusion Having no knowledge on the matter, what's the price comparison to just buying ketamine illegally and taking it without a doctor's help? Depression is like (or possibly is ) a form of chronic pain. People suffering from it severely might be willing to do anything for relief. Here's good information that a currently-illegal drug can help but if you want to do it legally you might…

Ket will set you back anywhere from $50-$150 per gram, depending on where in the world you are, and is of varying quality. It looks like they're using up to 1/2 a gram for treatment. I think the most of that $375 goes towards staffing costs, rather than the drug itself. Ketamine though legitimate channels costs about $5-$10 per gram from what I've heard.

I was told when I had it done that almost all of the cost was the paid time for a trained professional to do the IV, since ketamine for medical purposes costs on the order of cents per gram or less.

Re: Ketamine has 'fast-acting benefits' for depression

#150

Post by marsrover »

NeutronStar wrote: post #142
rincebrain wrote: post #140

I've posted this in other ketamine news stories before, but I'm offering it as a firsthand testimonial here. Ketamine was both the best and most depressing depression treatment option I've ever tried. Within a couple of weeks after having had the initial round of six treatments in two weeks, I was the most functional and productive human being I've _ever_ been - things that used to be impossible or utterly agonizing…

Imho, dissos are for short term depression fixing, you need them psychedelics to open your mind for long term.

Just for a little anecdotal evidence: I ate some psychedelic mushrooms multiple times about 8 years and and haven't been depressed since. I was previously diagnosed with clinical depression and took a moderate amount of Seroquel for it. I haven't taken anything since and I've been great.
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