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Time to rebuild the web?

oreilly.com

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Re: Time to rebuild the web?

#291

Post by jamesrcole »

randomsearch wrote: post #105

I don't believe the problem lies in any technology. We don't need blockchain, it's not JavaScript minification, it isn't the centralisation of services that are the problem. It's the business model. No amount of tech is going to change that. If you want to change the situation, start social media businesses with a different business model.

> If you want to change the situation, start social media businesses with a different business model.

There's a question of what kinds of business models are feasible in the current environment.

There's all sorts of business models that would be nice, if they were feasible, but which aren't currently feasible.

So actually, if certain types of business models are desirable, but aren't currently feasible, there's a deeper question of: are there ways we can change the environment the business models need to exist within?

Re: Time to rebuild the web?

#292

Post by cromwellian »

Everything gets centralized when there are economies are scale, technology stack fixes can’t change that.

Look at the ultimate “decentralized” technology, blockchain. The majority of mining power is now centralized in vast centralized farms with custom hardware and cheap access to power and half the Bitcoin is held by about 1000 people.

Re: Time to rebuild the web?

#293

Post by reaperducer »

WhiteNoiz3 wrote: post #230
randomsearch wrote: post #105

I don't believe the problem lies in any technology. We don't need blockchain, it's not JavaScript minification, it isn't the centralisation of services that are the problem. It's the business model. No amount of tech is going to change that. If you want to change the situation, start social media businesses with a different business model.

I've always felt that we need some kind of ubiquitous and low friction micro transactions for small time websites to succeed and to move away from the ad driven model. A niche blog could be successful with a small audience if each of them donates a penny or two to read new stories. That way people are directly supporting content that they find useful, rather than having to create controversy to drive ads and clicks.

There is (was?) a service that did this. I had it on one of my blogs a few years ago. People could use it to donate as little as a penny, and the donate button appeared on each article.

I was very surprised how generous some people were. 10¢, 20¢, or more. But in the end, even with tens or hundreds of thousands of views, the article that got the most donations still only racked up about eight bucks.

Re: Time to rebuild the web?

#294

Post by js8 »

erikb wrote: post #232
randomsearch wrote: post #105

I don't believe the problem lies in any technology. We don't need blockchain, it's not JavaScript minification, it isn't the centralisation of services that are the problem. It's the business model. No amount of tech is going to change that. If you want to change the situation, start social media businesses with a different business model.

People want to give away responsibility. That's imo the core problem. So even another business model will either fail (it's not like there aren't hundreds of other social networks out there) or will turn centralized as well.

> People want to give away responsibility.

What do you mean by that? What is the point of technology, if you don't save time or effort by using it? Can you explain what should people do?

Re: Time to rebuild the web?

#295

Post by zodiac »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #249
randomsearch wrote: post #105

I don't believe the problem lies in any technology. We don't need blockchain, it's not JavaScript minification, it isn't the centralisation of services that are the problem. It's the business model. No amount of tech is going to change that. If you want to change the situation, start social media businesses with a different business model.

It's not just social media, and it's not just ads, about which other people responded to you. The root of the problem - or at least the trunk very close to the root - is Software as a Service. It's the trend of turning software into services. Sure, it's nice for the vendors, and it's nice for corporate clients who can write off responsibility to a third party. But it also makes you no longer in control of your data,…

But as a customer, relying on SaSS solutions is so convenient. You can't just preach to people about the long term collective harms caused by SaSS - in game theory terms, the strategy where everyone willingly endures the pain of non-SaSS solutions to avoid collective harms is not a Nash equilibrium

Re: Time to rebuild the web?

#297

Post by zodiac »

randomsearch wrote: post #105

I don't believe the problem lies in any technology. We don't need blockchain, it's not JavaScript minification, it isn't the centralisation of services that are the problem. It's the business model. No amount of tech is going to change that. If you want to change the situation, start social media businesses with a different business model.

It's more nuanced than that, of course. For example the technological barrier of "our payments infra suck, so credit cards charge a minimum fee" rule out some kinds of micropayment business models (other barriers like UX or cultural attidudes do too), but not models like Spotify's. I would consider a different business model necessary but not sufficient.

Re: Time to rebuild the web?

#299

Post by zodiac »

mozumder wrote: post #272
randomsearch wrote: post #105

I don't believe the problem lies in any technology. We don't need blockchain, it's not JavaScript minification, it isn't the centralisation of services that are the problem. It's the business model. No amount of tech is going to change that. If you want to change the situation, start social media businesses with a different business model.

Disagree completely. The business model doesn't need to be profitable. Almost every website is unprofitable in itself, and only exist to serve as a person's or company's marketing interface. Websites ARE the ads, because that's their point. The web is a giant marketing device to sell stuff, like your resume or your local plumber or your open-source software project. The problem is the tech, and in particular, how a p…

> Websites ARE the ads, because that's their point.

Sounds like that's a perfectly profitable business model, broadly defined

Re: Time to rebuild the web?

#300

Post by realpeopleio »

laumars wrote: post #132
realpeopleio wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I also don't think it's possible to prevent bad actors from automation while allowing the good actors to do the same things on the cheap. The problem is the same controls that are used to make it difficult for bad actors will also make it difficult for the good ones, That's how RealPerson.io is different. It's pay to play so it doesn't try to out-tech the bad actors, and so it doesn't make it harder for the good ac…

I can think of a few ways it makes it harder for the good actors just from an initial scan of the site: * It's an additional service that people need to discover / learn and sign up for * It's not free. While the cost might seem cheap for people like ourselves in well paid jobs, not everyone has a disposable income. Anyone in poorly paid jobs / unemployed, expensive bills or family etc wouldn't want to or even might…

> I also don't trust handing "identity token" over to that site any more than I trust Facebook. What happens if/when they get hacked? Will they then have my bank card details? Will the be able to use my identity token to access other sites? These points matter to me because I know nothing about the company and they are gearing themselves up for being an obvious target for attackers.

A RealPerson code is not an access token. It's a unique code generated for a particular website. It's more like a coupon code and RealPerson.io will tell a website if it's valid. The website still handles creating the account and authentication etc., like it has before and does it however it wants, using whatever authentication it wants. But now the website can make a backend call and ask RealPerson.io if the code given is valid, meaning someone (who knows who) generated a code for this site. That's it. Then the website can validate that no other user has used that code when signing up on their website. The website doesn't know what account on RealPerson.io has the code. The website doesn't know what other websites the user uses (the codes are unique to each website). So RealPerson.io just knows codes and websites, and websites just know if the codes are valid. Nothing else is shared.

Stripe processes the payment and credit card details are not stored in RealPerson.io. There are no identity tokens to steal. You have codes but you generate those on demand when you are signing up on websites. Once they are used, then there's nothing more you can do with them.

RealPerson.io doesn't have any personal details on you besides the payment token from Stripe. No bank details. No usernames or passwords for other sites. No usage on other sites.

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