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Time to rebuild the web?

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Re: Time to rebuild the web?

#261

Post by peterwwillis »

freeone3000 wrote: post #165
peterwwillis wrote: post #158

I just came back from China. I could not message my loved ones, check my mail, update my social media, or listen to internet radio. This was not Facebook's fault, it was not even China's fault (though they were the ones blocking me). It was the fault of the way we use existing technology. So Facebook is banned. Fine. That shouldn't stop me from being able to at least send data somewhere that will end up at Facebook.…

SSL isn't some slap-on after the fact that does nothing - it renders traffic unreadable to anyone in the middle, and unalterable. The fact that China deems any content it cannot read as immediately forbidden says way more about China than it does about "our current state of tech".

The great firewall does allow secure TLS connections that it cannot read or modify. It just doesn't allow them to specific targets, or using specific protocols.

Re: Time to rebuild the web?

#262

Post by staticvar »

loceng wrote: post #239
staticvar wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to also add that not only does Dat / Beaker / Bunsen offer a great way to decentralize the Web for existing users, it also makes it more affordable for billions of other people to browse and host websites because you can sync websites P2P over offline wifi. The use of cryptography under the hood guarantees users don't get hit by man-in-the-middle attacks. It's like SSL for offline. *Disclaimer: I am a volunt…

In Bunsen Browser and others, while browsing offline, are you aware if there is a feature that allows version control tracking, so willing websites can have an API call that shares latest version - to return to say if an update is "required" or available?

> are you aware if there is a feature that allows version control tracking, so willing websites can have an API call that shares latest version - to return to say if an update is "required" or available?

@loceng Yes, that is how Dat works, thus any browser serving Dat Archives help propagated changes to Dat archives. Note that only changes that are signed with the archive's private key for the archive are propagated. All of that happens under the hood as an owner of a dat archive though. You just run `dat share` command in a directory, you get a public address for the archive, and any time you make a change to a file in the archive it automatically signs with the private key and share it out to the network.

https://docs.datproject.org/concepts#version-history

Re: Time to rebuild the web?

#263

Post by dredmorbius »

astura wrote: post #83
icc97 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually that makes a lot of sense, it's not that we need to have RSS replace Facebook, we need a resurgance of forums to take back from Facebook. Perhaps if forums could talk to each other you'd have an experience more like mastodon, but in concepts that more people understand. Something like an open source Stack Exchange network. So you can log-in to one of them but then easily create an account using the credentia…

Isn't this basically Reddit?

Reddit sucks for high-quality, long-lived discussions.

Of all places, G+ does reasonably well at this, with a suitably selective group.

Mailing lists / usenet are still probably the pinacle.

Re: Time to rebuild the web?

#264

Post by noyesno »

api wrote: post #224
kingnight wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does a mobile phone sync dats? The main drawback I see currently with beaker is their is no mobile version (for iPhone)

Mobile as a whole is an unsolved problem for decentralized systems. The mobile revolution is and has been by far the most powerful driver of centralization in the last 10-15 years. Mobile devices are slower, have less memory, and must consume less power than desktop, laptop, or server devices. To achieve good battery life they really need to be in an almost-off state most of the time. Add to this the fact that cellul…

Mobile devices could certainly be used to host such services /when they are being charged/. In practice most of us charge our devices during the night and, like cheap night-time electricity, we could have overnight mobile seeding. ... and it is always night-time somewhere in the world.

Re: Time to rebuild the web?

#265

Post by herbst »

JacobJans wrote: post #160
icc97 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually that makes a lot of sense, it's not that we need to have RSS replace Facebook, we need a resurgance of forums to take back from Facebook. Perhaps if forums could talk to each other you'd have an experience more like mastodon, but in concepts that more people understand. Something like an open source Stack Exchange network. So you can log-in to one of them but then easily create an account using the credentia…

I run a popular forum in a certain niche -- and have played around with discourse as an alternative. It doesn't seem to solve any important issues with growing a community. Additionally, it is rather difficult to customize, making it even harder to solve problems specific to my community. I am not a professional coder, but I can hack pretty much anything I need into my php based forum. Though, maybe discourse has got…

To be fair as Ruby/Rails developer I say the same about discourse VS everything else. It follows a lot of rails standards which makes it incredible easy to hack. While phpbb and friends are hacks in itself to begin with.

Re: Time to rebuild the web?

#266

Post by dredmorbius »

klokoman wrote: post #113
ElCapitanMarkla wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was reading something the other day about how reddit has killed the community feel of forums. And thinking about it I agree, I can remember pre reddit I used to be reasonably active on a few forums, made friends etc. Reddit interactions feel a lot more ephemeral if that’s the right word.

Because there aren't avatars and signatures. Those are essential to recognize users and also find out what they're about (signatures with links to other sites helped everyone). Also even a little personalization will be an incentive to invest a little more time in the community.

I think you're right on avatars. Goofy as they are, they seem to matter.

It somewhat hurts HN as well, IMO.

Re: Time to rebuild the web?

#267

Post by herbst »

exergy wrote: post #84
icc97 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually that makes a lot of sense, it's not that we need to have RSS replace Facebook, we need a resurgance of forums to take back from Facebook. Perhaps if forums could talk to each other you'd have an experience more like mastodon, but in concepts that more people understand. Something like an open source Stack Exchange network. So you can log-in to one of them but then easily create an account using the credentia…

I do not get discourse. I've only ever come across it on Jeff's own blog, but it seems no different to Disqus. And both don't load with uMatrix without manually activating them. I don't want more Javascript in my life. I want more static forum posts.

Except both have a comment functionality there is nothing they really compare to each other.

Re: Time to rebuild the web?

#268

Post by herbst »

oneeyedpigeon wrote: post #148
astura wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this basically Reddit?

I think they were raising the possibility of having multiple reedits, each owned by a separate entity, yet still compatible. Like we have multiple email providers, for example.

Which kind of is the concept of reddit. What am I missing?

Re: Time to rebuild the web?

#269

Post by staticvar »

kingnight wrote: post #202
Hedja wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue that Beaker is providing a better UX for the web while solving the centralised nature of it. Its API allows websites to provide interfaces for creating and modifying websites tailored for specific audiences, owned by the user. So you can have your own RSS subscriptions in a Dat, a feed reader in another Dat, click a button on a website to subscribe to it and add it to your Dat. The Feed reader can keep…

How does a mobile phone sync dats? The main drawback I see currently with beaker is their is no mobile version (for iPhone)

I've been helping to develop Bunsen browser for Android but we don't have an iPhone build yet. The hard part is just building it with nodejs all wired up correctly for iOS, but there are tools for that. We just don't have the volunteer working on it yet.

Re: Time to rebuild the web?

#270

Post by lucideer »

kodablah wrote: post #248
lucideer wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's not just a coincidence and I don't believe it's any kind of first-mover advantage. It's about the environment in which you operate and passing more and more laws and rules, regardless of the intentions, is the opposite direction You're presenting the situation as a failure of the EU, but I think you've missed the point here. The big players are located in the US because the environment there rewards big play…

> The EU system rewards small-player innovation and limits the creation of very large, dominant, monopolistic big players. I disagree. Do you believe this is the case today or is it the goal? From what I understand, the gap is quite large between number of small companies based on environment. Many of us with smaller companies stand on the shoulder of giants. Sometimes you have to take the bad with the good, and that…

> Do you believe this is the case today or is it the goal? From what I understand, the gap is quite large between number of small companies based on environment.

You're right, but what I was saying is that I believe it is the case today in the EU to a far greater extent than in it is in the US. That's not saying in any way that the EU is close to an ideal situation, or that there aren't big, dominant EU players. Along with the case of the influence of big non-EU players skewing the environment to a large degree.

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