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Time to rebuild the web?

oreilly.com

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Re: Time to rebuild the web?

#121

Post by jhasse »

naranha wrote: post #35
adrianN wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't think of a single desktop application that has been made obsolete by a SPA.

IDEs -> vscode thunderbird ->Gmail Ms office > gdocs Msn messenger -> Hangouts Etc. At least for most (non professional) users Edit: and often you are better off using webapps because they are sandboxed.

VS Code even includes native code (ripgrep written in Rust), so I'm not sure if it should count.

And in my experience Microsoft Office is still used more than Google Docs for non professional users, but YMMV.

Hangouts is also way behind natives apps like WhatsApp, iMessage, Telegram in market share.

Re: Time to rebuild the web?

#123

Post by realpeopleio »

corobo wrote: post #114
realpeopleio wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At first maybe for most people they won't want to pay the cost. What (hopefully) will happen is that smaller sites who have problems keeping bots and fake accounts at bay will decide it's worth it to them to require all their users to use RealPerson. And then (hopefully) over time users face no additional cost using RealPerson on other sites because they already have an account. Incidentally, this is how RealPeople.i…

The way you're addressing this site is confusing, you're talking as if your username isn't "realpeopleio" - are you affiliated with the site or just registered under a confusing username? I apologise for asking this rather than any actual followup questions but it's got me proper distracted

Yes I am affiliated. I'm arguing why we built RealPeople.io and RealPerson.io to solve the problems listed in the article. I don't think I've tried to hide that.

Re: Time to rebuild the web?

#124

Post by kristianc »

d--b wrote: post #106

These articles are annoying. They completely miss the point. The web as it was in the early 90s was an alternative to major content delivery platforms (TV, press, mostly). So there was these massive systems that were the press and the TV who would own most of our attention span. And then there was this cute alternative technology with a great community that was yet unpolluted by the big guys. Today, the big content g…

Which works great, until ISPs start offering subsidized plans for Facebook, Gmail, Spotify, Twitter, and expensive plans for everything else. When that happens, there is very little economic incentive to have smaller websites, smaller e-commerce websites end up being part of Amazon, and Google starts providing more and more of its own content.

Re: Time to rebuild the web?

#125

Post by realpeopleio »

randomsearch wrote: post #105

I don't believe the problem lies in any technology. We don't need blockchain, it's not JavaScript minification, it isn't the centralisation of services that are the problem. It's the business model. No amount of tech is going to change that. If you want to change the situation, start social media businesses with a different business model.

agreed. The incentives of the business model need to align with the goals of protecting privacy and keeping fake accounts to a minimum.

Re: Time to rebuild the web?

#126

Post by Hedja »

aquadrop wrote: post #97
Hedja wrote: post #23

It feels like this is already a work in progress using Beaker Browser and Dat. - Beaker lets you browse entire websites (dat archives) and fork them. - It lets you create and serve your own sites directly from the browser and seed it from a server (like a torrent). - It lets other sites create templated sites under your name for user generated content. - Visitors by default temporarily seed your website which may red…

But that only works for static data?

I think most websites can be generated statically. But yes, it does mean a lot of the existing patterns used on the current web needs to be redesigned for it. Again, this is all very new so there's a lot that needs to be worked out.

I can give an example of non-static data (though what is static vs dynamic can be a grey area):

SPAs work great with Beaker/Dat since users can download the app and use it offline. The data can be any Dat archive. So for a social network, each user can have their own Dat archives of images and posts. The root site can hold an index of each user and download individual files from their Dat and display them using client-side routing. In this scenario, each user has their own database as a Dat which is indexed by a parent Dat website.

Demo, a Twitter clone: https://github.com/beakerbrowser/fritter

Also, at the end of the day, they are still websites. So you can still use a central HTTP server to:

- Serve your data directly

- Provide an API to edit your Dat archive instead of distributing it into multiple user-owned archives.

It also means you don't need to migrate a website to a completely different paradigm in one big bang.

Re: Time to rebuild the web?

#127

Post by ataturk »

d--b wrote: post #106

These articles are annoying. They completely miss the point. The web as it was in the early 90s was an alternative to major content delivery platforms (TV, press, mostly). So there was these massive systems that were the press and the TV who would own most of our attention span. And then there was this cute alternative technology with a great community that was yet unpolluted by the big guys. Today, the big content g…

The little guy spreading ideas is not as easy as it was, though. If the search engines don't index your site, if Youtube removes the informative videos you made, if FB and Instagram are filtering you out, who is going to see it?

No, the Web has been weaponized by a collusion between corporations and government in order to press as hard as they can for censorship and thought control. Because at the end of the day, if people realized they didn't need big government or big corporations, where would that leave all these billionaires with their revolving doors in and out of publicly appointed power roles?

I honestly get depressed when I think about the dream of open government and more widespread knowledge that was supposed to come about with all this technology working for the little guy. Well, some of it came true, but as soon as it became a threat to the orthodoxy, they found a way to shut it down. And now the baseline model for all these companies is China. Google would be happy to censor Americans in the same way they censor content for the Chinese Communists. One policy for the whole world, and it's not a policy of freedom and openness, but one of oppression, as usual.

Re: Time to rebuild the web?

#128

Post by jsilence »

return1 wrote: post #56
martin_drapeau wrote: post #30

When I ask friends and family who use Facebook daily, privacy and security never come up as pain points. Media is blowing everything out of proportion. Replacing Facebook with RSS or Feedly is nonsense. My friends and family have no idea what those are. Facebook makes it easy for people to connect with old friends and family members through active human interactions: like this, follow her, read that. By doing so you…

it's also a fault of the websites themselves. In the off chance that an average facebook user uses google to search and end up in a website outside facebook, they 'll be typically be pestered with signing up to a newsletter and then with a popup to get browser notifications (along with a cookie popup in europe). The User experience will be usually atrocious, with content hidden way behind the ads. At that point the u…

yeah, wholeheartedly agreed.

and it is also sometimes the peoples fault when they forget civility and humility in discussions and behave like a$$holes.

othertimes sane and healthy online communities fail to defend themselves against those and against more sneaky trolls.

on top of that communication manners seem to degrade more and more with social media usage. I am often appauled by the tight lipped one line responses to contact messages on $craigslist-like-service. a friendly message asking about the availability of an item on sale is met with "yes it is still available.". no "hello", no end greeting, nothing along the lines of "if you'd like to buy, give me a call at $number".

Re: Time to rebuild the web?

#129

Post by mynewtb »

klokoman wrote: post #113
ElCapitanMarkla wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was reading something the other day about how reddit has killed the community feel of forums. And thinking about it I agree, I can remember pre reddit I used to be reasonably active on a few forums, made friends etc. Reddit interactions feel a lot more ephemeral if that’s the right word.

Because there aren't avatars and signatures. Those are essential to recognize users and also find out what they're about (signatures with links to other sites helped everyone). Also even a little personalization will be an incentive to invest a little more time in the community.

Also the concept of voting and strictly time-based decaying.

Re: Time to rebuild the web?

#130

Post by dagaci »

d--b wrote: post #106

These articles are annoying. They completely miss the point. The web as it was in the early 90s was an alternative to major content delivery platforms (TV, press, mostly). So there was these massive systems that were the press and the TV who would own most of our attention span. And then there was this cute alternative technology with a great community that was yet unpolluted by the big guys. Today, the big content g…

There is some irony in painting the major content delivery platforms in the 90s as bad actors when in actuality much of 90s media (like BBC) had much higher standards than so much of what comes via the web today.

Today we don't "pay" for quality content. Today content simply has authority if a lot of people who think like "me" read it _else_ -1.

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