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Time to rebuild the web?

oreilly.com

71–80 of 449 posts

Re: Time to rebuild the web?

#71

When I ask friends and family who use Facebook daily, privacy and security never come up as pain points. Media is blowing everything out of proportion. Replacing Facebook with RSS or Feedly is nonsense. My friends and family have no idea what those are. Facebook makes it easy for people to connect with old friends and family members through active human interactions: like this, follow her, read that. By doing so you…

50 years ago people who smoked didn't care about the adverse effects mainly because they didn't know the dangers.

As people who know the dangers of poor privacy choices we should protect those who have not had the opportunity to consider it yet.

Re: Time to rebuild the web?

#72
post #58

Nice that this website doesn't respect opening in new tab. Is this some ironic take or what?

Worse, linking to Amil Dash's article on medium [1], of all things, makes complaining about oligopolization of the Web kind of inconsequential.

[1]: https://medium.com/@anildash/the-missing-building-blocks-of-...

Re: Time to rebuild the web?

#73
post #23

It feels like this is already a work in progress using Beaker Browser and Dat. - Beaker lets you browse entire websites (dat archives) and fork them. - It lets you create and serve your own sites directly from the browser and seed it from a server (like a torrent). - It lets other sites create templated sites under your name for user generated content. - Visitors by default temporarily seed your website which may red…

I'd like to also add that not only does Dat / Beaker / Bunsen offer a great way to decentralize the Web for existing users, it also makes it more affordable for billions of other people to browse and host websites because you can sync websites P2P over offline wifi. The use of cryptography under the hood guarantees users don't get hit by man-in-the-middle attacks. It's like SSL for offline.

*Disclaimer: I am a volunteer contributor to Bunsen Browser.

Re: Time to rebuild the web?

#74
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course then you get into Gopher only territory. I wouldn't mind some CSS / HTML only sites like HN, your JS is limited to 5KB, jQuery isn't allowed, etc. Minify the web! Literally.

I think people that do care about this stuff already make webpages that are minimal. So there is probably no need to have a completely alternative space. Maybe just a directory/search engine that only indexes such pages.

Maybe a "Web Ring" that promotes such sites in honor of old web rings. Stamp your site with the minimalism stamp of approval.

Re: Time to rebuild the web?

#75

I've been toying with the idea of creating a web 0.5 that consists mostly of a meta tag and a piece of css (body:after{...}) that hides the contents while directing users to use a textmode only browser. Rules would be page is valid if it doesn't contain css or js. I think this could be an incredible fun experiment somewhat in the same style as the tilde club. If it became popular enough who knows... maybe the communi…

I like the idea of a text-only browser, back to the basics. Oh and I miss web rings!

I'd kinda like to reinvent the "web" as a TUI. Like, every site is just a program compiled to a portable bytecode that interfaces in terminal codes and you'd "browse" it with a modified telnet client. No more bullshit styling you can't read supported by 200 javascript dependencies that refuse to let you click buttons if you have the audacity to be behind a dns filter, no more style over substance, no more animated gifs, no more advice animals, no more endless over-engineering to see who can do the least with the most resources.

Re: Time to rebuild the web?

#76
post #60

I feel like he's worrying but he isn't sure about what. I don't think the problems of the internet are related to how easily people can make their own sites. It's just that the feeling that your content might actually be seen and appreciated is gone. In the 1990s if you published something online it felt good like some people are going to read this and care. Now it feels like "hey another ball tossed into the massive…

There's already such a thing. Local subreddits, Facebook groups, GitHub issues etc. They all have their regulars. I'm fairly involved in my community with http://allaboutberlin.com/, and I've made a few IRL friends just writing for that website.

Re: Time to rebuild the web?

#77
post #31

I'm not buying it. Web development complexity grows but so does desktop software, kernel development, etc. You used to be able to have a small program written in BASIC or whatever that would give you a simple popup alert on desktop. Now you need to worry about backwards compatibility, different OSes, etc. But guess what? You can still write simple programs, without all the complex stuff, if you want to. The exact sam…

> the pet owner forum doesn't exists

They are increasingly moving to FB Groups. It's a good tool for what it does.

Re: Time to rebuild the web?

#78

When I ask friends and family who use Facebook daily, privacy and security never come up as pain points. Media is blowing everything out of proportion. Replacing Facebook with RSS or Feedly is nonsense. My friends and family have no idea what those are. Facebook makes it easy for people to connect with old friends and family members through active human interactions: like this, follow her, read that. By doing so you…

50 years ago people who smoked didn't care about the adverse effects mainly because they didn't know the dangers. As people who know the dangers of poor privacy choices we should protect those who have not had the opportunity to consider it yet.

And yet a lot of people smoke.

Re: Time to rebuild the web?

#79

I agree that having a few walled gardens is a problem, but having more smaller walled gardens probably won't change much. Bad actors can still sign up, post, spam, harass, etc. on several small walled gardens. What we need is a way to better identify and handle bad actors. The internet in the 90s seemed more fun and more open. Perhaps it's because the only people really participating were not interested in abusing si…

> The internet in the 90s seemed more fun and more open. Perhaps it's because the only people really participating were not interested in abusing sites or people. It was mostly nerds sharing nerdy things. Once money got involved, and free everything was available, it turned into this soup of bots, trolls, AI, fake this and that, big money, swaying public opinion, and gross content.

The 90s had fair share of the above as well:

* bots: I used to write bots to troll 90s HTML chatrooms (I was young and an idiot). IRC bots have been around since forever at well.

* trolls: trolling is older than the web. Platforms like IRC and newsgroups used to be rife with trolls if you wondered into the wrong place or said something stupid to the wrong people.

* AI: this isn't really a web problem but more just a natural advancement of technology. I mean we had bots in the 90s so you can bet if AI was as far along then as it is now then we'd have seen AI then as well.

* fake this and that: this has always been a problem. Let's not forget that Snopes.com was launched in 1994.

* big money: The web definitely attacks big money now, but even in the 90s some businesses were sinking huge quantities of money in the bet that it would pay off big. Probably the most famous example being Amazon, who were founded in 1994.

* swaying public opinion: I agree here. This more recent trend of using user identifiable information to target persuasive pieces (eg what Cambridge Analytica were doing) is very worrying too.

* gross content: shock sites are nearly as old as the web itself. Goatse, for example, is so old it's now part of the mainstream consciousness.

* spam: Spam on forums is less of a problem now than it's ever been thanks to new techniques in user verfication (captcha and similiar, developers more aware to validate users with an activation email, etc). And spam email is an order of magnatude better now that it's been in years.

* sock accounts: To be honest I think this is another area where they were more common then than they are now. This time I think it is due to the current trend of using real world identities. In the late 90s it was particularly easy to create sock accounts due to how easy it became to create a multitude of free email accounts (eg Yahoo Mail).

* very often lose out to the big sites: this is where I think the biggest shift has happened. People seem less interested to stumble on new content than thye did in the 90s. Of course this might just be age bias on my part; I was in college in the 90s so had both the time and the social crowd to stumble upon random stuff online. Whereas these days I'm older and look for different requirements from the web so for me I look to it more as a tool than a toy.

I'm not saying things are better now nor then (actually I do kind of miss the 90s web) but there was definitely still a darker undercurrent present even in the 90s.

Re: Time to rebuild the web?

#80
post #31

I'm not buying it. Web development complexity grows but so does desktop software, kernel development, etc. You used to be able to have a small program written in BASIC or whatever that would give you a simple popup alert on desktop. Now you need to worry about backwards compatibility, different OSes, etc. But guess what? You can still write simple programs, without all the complex stuff, if you want to. The exact sam…

It's still possible: http://motherfuckingwebsite.com/

When I made All About Berlin, it was just HTML and CSS. Nothing complex there. I eventually added Disqus and Google Analytics, but it's still possible to build simple websites.

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