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Road safety tips from Sweden

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Re: Road safety tips from Sweden

#101

Post by lemming »

JetSetWilly wrote: post #60
foreigner wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My kids are a little older, but I've used the same strategy with bicycle helmets. There's never any argument about using them, because they've simply never been in a bicycle without a helmet, not seen me ride without one.

It is a bit worrying, there's no real evidence that rear facing seats improve outcomes for children, and similarly there's no real evidence that bicycle helmets improve outcomes for people in bicycle accidents. But somehow, the "safety industry" has leapt on these things and now everybody has a ludicrously fearful attitude to cycling and you get looked at funny (or even harassed by strangers) if you dare to let your…

I wrote about my personal experience with bike helmets a few years ago (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1749644#1750459):

When I was with my ex-girlfriend her little sister was knocked off her bike, also by a totally reckless driver doing over 80km/h in a 50km/h zone. She suffered serious head trauma, they didn't actually think she'd make it through the night. She did survive but had pretty serious behavioural problems after that, and died a few years later of a cerebral tumour which was almost certainly related.

I'll never forget the surgeon when he first came out of the operating room. He said: "If she had been wearing a helmet, none of this would have been necessary and she'd be fine." You could see clearly in his face that he'd seen this way too many times.

I have another more recent anecdote since having kids myself. A friend of a friend here has a son the same age as our daughter. When he was 3 he was out on his scooter without a helmet, and fell off - nothing out of the ordinary, except he happened to hit his head on the concrete corner of a ramp. We live in a small town, he had to be choppered out to the nearest city, spent significant time in ICU, multiple brain surgeries, and the kid is now epileptic.

I've also had the experience of falling when snowboarding not wearing a helmet, and not even going very fast. I woke up inside an MRI machine several hours later after a serious concussion.

You can do what you want for yourself and your kids. Mine are going to wear helmets. There is no learning curve for head injuries.

Re: Road safety tips from Sweden

#102

Post by eesmith »

solarkraft wrote: post #95
eesmith wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One difficulty is that it is much harder to live in the US without a car, while Sweden has a much better public transportation system. Take away someone's license in the US and it can be almost impossible for them to buy food, go to work, etc. I tried once living without a car for a month, and it only reason it was possible was because I lived near the center of town ... and because I bummed a few rides when I didn't…

How about a bicycle?

Yeah, no. I used to ride a bike for errands, and sometimes to work. Then I moved to Santa Fe and saw no safe way to get around on a bike. Narrow sidewalks, gravel on the edge of the roads and (at that time) no real bike paths.

It's a bit better now, but I'm talking about 12 years ago.

I've since moved to a place with better cycling infrastructure.

Re: Road safety tips from Sweden

#103

Post by jakeogh »

abelsson wrote: post #55
jakeogh wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can get anywhere in my local city in the time it takes me to jump in my car and drive there. Comparing that with walking to a bus stop and waiting for it to get near my destination is not even remotely close, _and I wouldn't want to even if it was faster_. Talking about speed (while important) ignores the ability to instantly change your plan. Your experience might work in a closely spaced situation (hence your odd…

Walking/Biking also allows me to instantly change my plans, even more so than driving does (try turning around instantly in a car). What do you mean "low large countries work"? The absolute size of a country is irrelevant (what New Yorker cares what malls there are in Kentucky?), what matters is population/service density. The US has a 50% larger population density than Sweden, so it should be able to support at leas…

It's cultural and technical. We value our time and large KE control. It's also nice being wrapped in steel with airbags. You could ride for an hour, and I could drive for 15min and we have gone the same distance. If we both then change our minds, I need to backtrack 15 min.

Not to mention, try carrying the things I put in my 5700lb car (without any planning) on your bike.

I made the math easy, but it's the same arg if it's 45. The only legit arg I can come up for your point is sometimes I want to run or ride a bike, but in that case, I'm going to avoid roads even if it's 100% 3 cylinders Geo's, or just follow my routine and exercise at the gym since it's more fun than running alone to xyz when I really just need to get something done.

Re: Road safety tips from Sweden

#104

Post by jakeogh »

CalRobert wrote: post #74
jakeogh wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can get anywhere in my local city in the time it takes me to jump in my car and drive there. Comparing that with walking to a bus stop and waiting for it to get near my destination is not even remotely close, _and I wouldn't want to even if it was faster_. Talking about speed (while important) ignores the ability to instantly change your plan. Your experience might work in a closely spaced situation (hence your odd…

Country size has nothing to do with it. Tearing down downtowns to put in parking lots, forcing buildings to be surrounded by seas of asphalt, and density restrictions could be related. Also it should be mentioned that your driving makes the city less pleasant and more dangerous to walk or cycle in, encouraging others to drive, in an unfortunate feedback loop.

You are making too many assumptions. It's easy to design city centers so it's not worth the trouble for most people to drive through them. Downtown my city is like that. We drive around it. I have seen the opposite, your worst case, but that's their fault. And ya, distance matters. I live only ~6 miles from where I work, and I rode a bike for a year, but I can drive it in a fraction of the time and then not worry about changing plans or going somewhere much further away without first pedaling myself home.

Re: Road safety tips from Sweden

#105

Post by jakeogh »

acdha wrote: post #90
isostatic wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it culturally acceptable to murder people in the US?

Part of it is that we make a lot of excuses for drivers since car ownership was a key part of the American self image for the 20th century. That also meant that there was an assumption that bicyclist meant poor and often non-white, adding that pressure to assume the victim was at fault. The self-image and idea of what a successful American is supposed to look like wasn’t something I thought about until my cycling gro…

When you have nothing left to reach for, what card gets played? True or not, it's like clockwork. And using CA cities as an example is downright funny/offensive to most Americans (including most CA'ians) btw.

Re: Road safety tips from Sweden

#106

Post by checkyoursudo »

thatfrenchguy wrote: post #84
checkyoursudo wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's how my kids eat brown bread (whole wheat bread). I don't know whether they know about white bread, but they certainly don't have access to it at home. They either eat whole wheat bread or they don't eat bread, and I don't care either way. I make really good sandwiches. If they want one, then they can have one. :)

You should probably buy bread without sugar in it though for you and your kids.

I usually make the bread.

Water, flour, salt, yeast. Sometimes sugar depending on the type, but pretty rarely. Maybe an egg wash every once in a while. Sometimes olive oil. Etc etc.

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