Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ketamine has 'fast-acting benefits' for depression

bbc.co.uk

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 215 posts

Re: Ketamine has 'fast-acting benefits' for depression

#31

Post by saasthrowaway3 »

TTPrograms wrote: post #22

If you're an American, every time you read a new article on Ketamine for depression your thought should be "Jeese, healthcare is screwed up". Pharma companies don't benefit from getting Ketamine approved (since it's no longer patent protected), so no one is putting it through FDA for depression. As a result insurance will never cover it (under the current model). The reason this treatment isn't mainstream isn't becau…

Do you think something like "FDA-approval of Ketamine" could be successfully crowdfunded?

Re: Ketamine has 'fast-acting benefits' for depression

#32

Post by isoprophlex »

themodelplumber wrote: post #15

Ketamine is an anesthetic. Has anyone compared it to e.g. ibuprofen for this use case? Ibuprofen works very well for me when experiencing depressive symptoms. I'm down to about 2h max per depressive episode (logged at 10-30 depressing thoughts per minute, compared to none after). Mechanism intuitively "feels" inflammatory and looking at my logs seems related to exhaustion due to over-productivity, lack of rest, etc.

Mechanistically, there is a large difference between ibuprofen and ketamine. Ibuprofen does not work on the NMDA receptor, as ketamine does. NMDA activity modulation is associated with psychological phenomena:

"""NMDA receptor antagonists can mimic these problems; they sometimes induce "psychotomimetic" side effects, symptoms resembling psychosis. Such side effects caused by NMDA receptor inhibitors include hallucinations, paranoid delusions, confusion, difficulty concentrating, agitation, alterations in mood, nightmares, catatonia,;ataxia, anesthesia, and learning and memory deficits.""" (From Wikipedia)

Ibuprofen hits the COX enzymes, for which no psychological effects are noted.

Edit: of course I'm not discounting your own observations, just regurgitating some textbook knowledge.

Re: Ketamine has 'fast-acting benefits' for depression

#33

Post by goldenkey »

DrScump wrote: post #13

Is the mechanism of action known?

One part of it, at least for me, is the psychadelic "converging on rebirth" feeling. It's a very geometric type of high, most likely due to the NMDA agonism, induced dissociation / depersonalization. Much shorter duration than LSD, and less chance of bad thoughts/actions since you are pretty much sedated and unable to panic. Ketamine is really therepeutic mentally.

Re: Ketamine has 'fast-acting benefits' for depression

#34

Post by isoprophlex »

starpilot wrote: post #19

How hard would it be to create a ketamine nasal spray at home, if you possess some in powder form?

Not at all. Not proud of it per se but... I've used them often to get high in random places.

Ketamine dissolves pretty well in water.

Re: Ketamine has 'fast-acting benefits' for depression

#35

Post by proverbialbunny »

pw wrote: post #7

My girlfriend receives ketamine treatment for her depression, so I’ve the results first hand. It’s truly astounding. She’s seen more improvement from the ketamine than from a decade of psychotherapy and traditional psychopharmacology. The only downside is the cost (it’s not covered by insurance) and the potential that there are long term side effects that have yet to be discovered. We pay $375 for a 40-minute infusio…

Doesn't ketamine stimulate growth in the same areas of the brain that exercise does, and does therapy prescribe routine daily exercise?

I can imagine there being a great short term benefit to ketamine, as people who are severely depressed can't exercise due to the depression. Has there been any mention switching from ketamine to daily exercise, or doing both?

Re: Ketamine has 'fast-acting benefits' for depression

#37

Post by nebstrebor »

TTPrograms wrote: post #22

If you're an American, every time you read a new article on Ketamine for depression your thought should be "Jeese, healthcare is screwed up". Pharma companies don't benefit from getting Ketamine approved (since it's no longer patent protected), so no one is putting it through FDA for depression. As a result insurance will never cover it (under the current model). The reason this treatment isn't mainstream isn't becau…

Generic pharma is still big business. And there's patents for novel ways to deliver the medication (e.g., Vyvanse and Concerta in the ADD stimulants space)

Re: Ketamine has 'fast-acting benefits' for depression

#38

Post by Nursie »

ry_ry wrote: post #5

@HN's chemists - I was under the impression regular ketamine use caused irreversible bladder damage[0] - Is that due to much higher recreational dosage vs medical, or would this be something that couldn't be prescribed long-term? [0] http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/29811499/k-bladder-the...

Daily, high doses can cause recrystallization in the bladder.

It's a problem, but seems to be limited to those exhibiting problem usage (even within the context of recreational use)

Re: Ketamine has 'fast-acting benefits' for depression

#39

Post by kvgr »

themodelplumber wrote: post #15

Ketamine is an anesthetic. Has anyone compared it to e.g. ibuprofen for this use case? Ibuprofen works very well for me when experiencing depressive symptoms. I'm down to about 2h max per depressive episode (logged at 10-30 depressing thoughts per minute, compared to none after). Mechanism intuitively "feels" inflammatory and looking at my logs seems related to exhaustion due to over-productivity, lack of rest, etc.

There could be some connection, since physical and mental pain activate similar brain regions. I can see how pain killers may help to some degree with emotional pain. (Not a doctor)

Re: Ketamine has 'fast-acting benefits' for depression

#40

Post by pjc50 »

proverbialbunny wrote: post #35
pw wrote: post #7

My girlfriend receives ketamine treatment for her depression, so I’ve the results first hand. It’s truly astounding. She’s seen more improvement from the ketamine than from a decade of psychotherapy and traditional psychopharmacology. The only downside is the cost (it’s not covered by insurance) and the potential that there are long term side effects that have yet to be discovered. We pay $375 for a 40-minute infusio…

Doesn't ketamine stimulate growth in the same areas of the brain that exercise does, and does therapy prescribe routine daily exercise? I can imagine there being a great short term benefit to ketamine, as people who are severely depressed can't exercise due to the depression. Has there been any mention switching from ketamine to daily exercise, or doing both?

I know exercise is good for depression, but this is an extremely patronising response to someone else's description of their medical treatment.
Post reply on HN