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Founder who lived with bipolar for years started a company to tackle the stigma

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Re: Founder who lived with bipolar for years started a company to tackle the stigma

#41
post #6

My belief is that everyone has minor bouts of mania and depression, and bipolar people just experience it more extreme. My psychiatrists have flirted with a bipolar diagnosis but ultimately they think it’s standard anxiety / depression. Every few months I go through a week where I barely sleep, my mind is racing, work nonstop, empathy decreases, basically feel on top of the world. And similar every few months I will…

Is it ok if you could detail your "mechanisms" that you use?

Just trying to grok against my own which has worked for me for the past decade or so but am struggling with its effectiveness recently.

Re: Founder who lived with bipolar for years started a company to tackle the stigma

#42

FYI - I am Daniel's co-founder, if you have any questions on Campfire or whatev's.

In the same way that ADHD is very much agreed to be over diagnosed, do you believe bipolar might also be over diagnosed? I have seen family members conditions worsen after treatment(which may just be a coincidence), or maybe the inadequacy and/or causation of treatment.

I think "borderline" is what is now the sweeping diagnosis for everything that can't be boxed properly to any of the available shelves, and that one might be overused more. When you know some true BPDs in real-life, it's not fun at all - cut wrists, irreversible body modifications, constant threats of suicide, used as a back-up when important plans fail, use of other people for validation, inability to hold consistent mental state etc. Bipolar comparing to that seems pretty benign even if it's terrible enough.

Re: Founder who lived with bipolar for years started a company to tackle the stigma

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My belief is that everyone has minor bouts of mania and depression, and bipolar people just experience it more extreme if you read about the symptoms of bipolar disorder you will see that it is a bit more complex than this. http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/bipolar-disorder/index... Take a look at the list of manic / depressive episode symptoms. Every single one of those applies to me in a very extreme way - i…

Sleep. Sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep is the key. I cannot stress that enough. Sleep and schedule. Wake up at the same time every day, no. matter. what. Don't stay out late just cause it's the weekend, don't go out partying just cause your friends are. Don't pull an all-nighter just to get an A on a test or meet a deadline. Once your sleep gets out of whack, a manic bout is not far behind, and that's 6+ months of your…

Amen, and well said. I'm a psychiatrist and I worry the most about sleep, full stop. In a disease (or set of diseases, or whatever) that can make people feel so out of control, sleep is one of the best ways to take back control.

Re: Founder who lived with bipolar for years started a company to tackle the stigma

#44

FYI - I am Daniel's co-founder, if you have any questions on Campfire or whatev's.

In the same way that ADHD is very much agreed to be over diagnosed, do you believe bipolar might also be over diagnosed? I have seen family members conditions worsen after treatment(which may just be a coincidence), or maybe the inadequacy and/or causation of treatment.

Probably like ADHD, lots of docs would suggest that bipolar is both over- and under-diagnosed. With the rise of the atypical antipsychotics, it became sort of a 'flavor of the month' diagnosis for folks with anxious depression, or treatment-resistant depression, or irritable depression, or depression with substance use disorders. On the other hand - it's still underdiagnosed as well, with one (older) survey suggesting ~1/3 of folks waited a decade or more for a correct diagnosis [0], and no reason to believe this has improved all that much.

[0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12633125

Re: Founder who lived with bipolar for years started a company to tackle the stigma

#45
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the same way that ADHD is very much agreed to be over diagnosed, do you believe bipolar might also be over diagnosed? I have seen family members conditions worsen after treatment(which may just be a coincidence), or maybe the inadequacy and/or causation of treatment.

I think "borderline" is what is now the sweeping diagnosis for everything that can't be boxed properly to any of the available shelves, and that one might be overused more. When you know some true BPDs in real-life, it's not fun at all - cut wrists, irreversible body modifications, constant threats of suicide, used as a back-up when important plans fail, use of other people for validation, inability to hold consisten…

I agree with everything you said except honestly believe the medications are what are causing the issues in many cases. My concern is that kids are being diagnosed with a chronic condition, and then being treated like ADHD. My favorite fun fact is that people treated with placebo in a NIMH study were less likely to be rehospitalized then those treated with actual medication[1]. Many of the most popular medications(Zyprexa & Sequel) cause insomnia and in extreme situations psychosis. The NIMH completely threw out the study deciding that recommending placebo was completely illogical.

[1]: http://psychrights.org/research/digest/chronicity/Neurolepti...

Re: Founder who lived with bipolar for years started a company to tackle the stigma

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what you're saying. i was hospitalized last year during the election while thinking that the gov. was after me, reporting a coworker as a terrorist (def not a terrorist) etc. i could go on. actually i will go on: reported the nicest guy to HR (he's fine) was on the verge of suicide, then thought "people" were after me and just completely flipped shit. family member kindly allowed me to stay at their home…

Psychosis is not required to have a diagnosis of bipolar and frankly I do not personally believe that it should be included in bipolar(it should be a separate diagnosis). IMO and many other psychologists opinions is that bipolar by the general public is often viewed as a mood disorder(not the psychosis part).

The genetics would argue otherwise. Here's an interesting recent illustration: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29167880

Re: Founder who lived with bipolar for years started a company to tackle the stigma

#47
post #6

My belief is that everyone has minor bouts of mania and depression, and bipolar people just experience it more extreme. My psychiatrists have flirted with a bipolar diagnosis but ultimately they think it’s standard anxiety / depression. Every few months I go through a week where I barely sleep, my mind is racing, work nonstop, empathy decreases, basically feel on top of the world. And similar every few months I will…

> My psychiatrists have flirted with a bipolar diagnosis but ultimately they think it’s standard anxiety / depression.

I hear that very often, especially from the people diagnosed around 30-15 years ago. I can't get the feeling that this is just an easy excuse to cover inability to find a real cause. I have no study to back it up, just my experience, but I've yet to see a person who has an anxiety just like that. It is an effect, not a cause. You can't treat an effect an just happily ignore the real reason. I am biased by the people I around me, sure, but I would say, very often the cause is being different (even if only slightly) and difficulties to find yourself in the society.

(edit typo)

Re: Founder who lived with bipolar for years started a company to tackle the stigma

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Psychosis is not required to have a diagnosis of bipolar and frankly I do not personally believe that it should be included in bipolar(it should be a separate diagnosis). IMO and many other psychologists opinions is that bipolar by the general public is often viewed as a mood disorder(not the psychosis part).

The genetics would argue otherwise. Here's an interesting recent illustration: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29167880

No. That article proves my point exactly. Bipolar by definition currently may or may not include psychosis(there is no way for the medical provider to distinguish between the 2.) If you did not include psychosis(as the DSM does now), most people with bipolar diagnosis would actually have Schizophrenia because that is the next closest mental illness(which is why there are genetic similarities.) Bundling an angry disorder with hallucinations should not be done and was an afterthought. Actually psychologists agree with me. "psychotic features – is included almost as an afterthought. It is not one of the defining features of a manic episode. Rather, it is something that may be present.[1]"

[1]: http://behaviorismandmentalhealth.com/2009/09/06/bipolar-dis...

Re: Founder who lived with bipolar for years started a company to tackle the stigma

#49
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the same way that ADHD is very much agreed to be over diagnosed, do you believe bipolar might also be over diagnosed? I have seen family members conditions worsen after treatment(which may just be a coincidence), or maybe the inadequacy and/or causation of treatment.

I think "borderline" is what is now the sweeping diagnosis for everything that can't be boxed properly to any of the available shelves, and that one might be overused more. When you know some true BPDs in real-life, it's not fun at all - cut wrists, irreversible body modifications, constant threats of suicide, used as a back-up when important plans fail, use of other people for validation, inability to hold consisten…

BPD is a really specific personality disorder with fairly clear characteristics. While personality orders in general are somewhat controversial, and notoriously difficult to treat, I’d be interested in seeing evidence of overdiagnosis.

Depression on its own can be crippling and lethal, so complicating it with an addictive, potentially reckless or even psychotic second state is a nightmare. Mania is often misunderstood as just elevated mood and high energy, but the reality is more often of the “running up crushing debt, promiscuous and dangerous sexual activity” flavor than “spent all week coding a masterpiece.”

In extremes mania leads to a psychotic break to the point of being difficult to distinguish (even in a clinical setting) from schizophrenia. I knew a lovely guy who worked on motorcycles for Harley, and he was always troubled, classically bipolar, but refused to get help because he loved the highs. Then one day I got a call from his wife that he had spent three days “talking to Jesus and the devil” and pleading the case for his soul. He had to be committed for observation, which turned into weeks and then months of inpatient care. Bipolar disorder really is no joke, and the tendency for people with the disorder to struggle with substance abuse doesn’t help. “Dual diagnosis” is a phrase that portends a world of trouble, especially if you’re not wealthy enough to avoid various aspects of the system.

The last point is that BPD typically improves with age, while bipolar disorder typically becomes worse.

Re: Founder who lived with bipolar for years started a company to tackle the stigma

#50
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not a psychiatrist, but it does sound like you have bipolar symptoms, especially if you have the hypo-maniac episodes. Bipolar is sometimes misdiagnosed as major depressive disorder, because the mania doesn't seem like a problem. Who doesn't want to feel more productive and on top of the world? I know I've failed to recognize a manic episode, and wow did I end up paying the price when the pendulum swung the othe…

> because the mania doesn't seem like a problem. To be clear, the feeling of being on top of the world and superhuman is hypomania, and not full blown mania (hypo indicating "less than" mania), which from my experience, is far and away worse than the depressive episodes. Don't get me wrong, depression is bad and you can literally end up dead from it. Not going to minimize that. But the mania I've experienced? Watch o…

> To be clear, the feeling of being on top of the world and superhuman is hypomania, and not full blown mania (hypo indicating "less than" mania)

Which, unrelatedly, always confused me. "Hypo" in medicine usually means "a dangerous lack of something"--hypoxia, hypothyroid--not "too much of something, but not way too much." The first time I heard "hypomania," I assumed it meant depression! It seems like "semi-manic" or something along those lines would have been clearer.

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