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What did Alan Kay and Steve Jobs talk about at the 2007 iPhone keynote?

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Re: What did Alan Kay and Steve Jobs talk about at the 2007 iPhone keynote?

#51
The entire Fast Company interview is gold, but a few quotes on the iPhone:

"Think about this. How stupid is this? It’s about as stupid as you can get. But how successful is the iPhone? It’s about as successful as you can get, so that matches you up with something that is the logical equivalent of television in our time."

...

"Yeah. We can eliminate the learning curve for reading by getting rid of reading and going to recordings. That’s basically what they’re doing: Basically, let’s revert back to a pre-tool time."

https://www.fastcompany.com/40435064/what-alan-kay-thinks-ab...

Re: What did Alan Kay and Steve Jobs talk about at the 2007 iPhone keynote?

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Education is not about just reading, but regardless - you know what's better for reading than an iPad? A paper book . And if your concern is weight, you know what combines the best qualities of a paper book and a tablet? An e-book reader with e-Ink display. (This is sad, really. As I understand, e-Ink tech is patented to death, so there's little progress there.) Still, I'm not saying iPads are useless in general. The…

Wow. As a highly educated person, I had no idea I was choosing inferior tools! Thanks for letting me know. I gave all my nieces and nephews tablets, and they all used them, I hope I didn’t destroy their lives. Seriously, I have a hard time believing you can quote any evidence that a paper book is much better than a tablet for everyone. Which appears to be your assertion, although it’s hard to tell.

As a starting point, can you quote any evidence that a tablet is better than a paper book? Both for reading and for more general educational activities?

I assume your family doesn't use their tablets with candycrush-like apps unlike some of my acquaintances. Which apps do they use to make it worth it?

I tend to assume that the burden of the proof of value is on the new tool, otherwise we just keep changing and nothing gets ever battle-tested. Paper, pen and other boring educational tools have drawbacks and benefits that are well-known; what about tablets?

Re: What did Alan Kay and Steve Jobs talk about at the 2007 iPhone keynote?

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh. I read on a tablet all of the time, I guess that makes me a prisoner of hype! Minority view, yes.

Education is not about just reading, but regardless - you know what's better for reading than an iPad? A paper book . And if your concern is weight, you know what combines the best qualities of a paper book and a tablet? An e-book reader with e-Ink display. (This is sad, really. As I understand, e-Ink tech is patented to death, so there's little progress there.) Still, I'm not saying iPads are useless in general. The…

[deleted]

Re: What did Alan Kay and Steve Jobs talk about at the 2007 iPhone keynote?

#54
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh. I read on a tablet all of the time, I guess that makes me a prisoner of hype! Minority view, yes.

Are you a k12 student? If not, why are you replying at all? Anyone who asserts that iPads are a good choice for education are completely out of touch at best, or ignorant at worst. I'm sorry if this borders on a personal attack, but it feels like you're just looking for a reason to be offended.

I had an iPad in high school and loved it, despite not having any apps for any of my school stuff. Just the browser and the form factor was enough to be a pretty good device. Note taking was the main thing I couldn’t do with it, and now it’s a great device for note taking. That is a big enough differentiator from Chromebooks to make it the best choice IMO.

But of course this is just based on my limited personal experience, I could be totally wrong.

Re: What did Alan Kay and Steve Jobs talk about at the 2007 iPhone keynote?

#55
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. As a highly educated person, I had no idea I was choosing inferior tools! Thanks for letting me know. I gave all my nieces and nephews tablets, and they all used them, I hope I didn’t destroy their lives. Seriously, I have a hard time believing you can quote any evidence that a paper book is much better than a tablet for everyone. Which appears to be your assertion, although it’s hard to tell.

As a starting point, can you quote any evidence that a tablet is better than a paper book? Both for reading and for more general educational activities? I assume your family doesn't use their tablets with candycrush-like apps unlike some of my acquaintances. Which apps do they use to make it worth it? I tend to assume that the burden of the proof of value is on the new tool, otherwise we just keep changing and nothin…

I was expressing a personal anecdote, which I said (up one) that I knew was a minority opinion. I wasn't saying that I was expressing a universal truth. Sorry that I wasn't obvious.

Re: What did Alan Kay and Steve Jobs talk about at the 2007 iPhone keynote?

#56
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh. I read on a tablet all of the time, I guess that makes me a prisoner of hype! Minority view, yes.

Are you a k12 student? If not, why are you replying at all? Anyone who asserts that iPads are a good choice for education are completely out of touch at best, or ignorant at worst. I'm sorry if this borders on a personal attack, but it feels like you're just looking for a reason to be offended.

I'm not offended, so if that's what you're reacting to, now you know. Instead, I was giving a personal anecdote in reaction to a statement which looked like an over-generalization.

My nieces and nephews were k12 when I gave them tablets.

Apparently I missed the news that tablets were terrible 100% of the time! Which appears to be what you're saying, but I can't really tell, what with all the names you called me. "Out of touch" or "ignorant", what a choice!

Re: What did Alan Kay and Steve Jobs talk about at the 2007 iPhone keynote?

#57
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh. I read on a tablet all of the time, I guess that makes me a prisoner of hype! Minority view, yes.

there are better devices for reading. Objectively.

You’re right. But it’s not about making textbooks digital. It’s about bringing more interactive software into the mix. IMO a combination of text, video, and interactive applications would be much more effective than just reading a book. And for what it’s worth, textbooks are rarely “read” anyways. Subsections of chapters are used and often not in order. And that’s mixed with a plethora of other content which is still largely being managed in a manual and ad-hoc manner. Clearly we can do better than this.

Re: What did Alan Kay and Steve Jobs talk about at the 2007 iPhone keynote?

#58
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Education is not about just reading, but regardless - you know what's better for reading than an iPad? A paper book . And if your concern is weight, you know what combines the best qualities of a paper book and a tablet? An e-book reader with e-Ink display. (This is sad, really. As I understand, e-Ink tech is patented to death, so there's little progress there.) Still, I'm not saying iPads are useless in general. The…

- e-ink has garbage level latency, which makes it useless for anything even slightly dynamic, including educational videos of course - e-ink doesn't have color, color is helpful in educational material to make it friendly and accessible - there are outlets everywhere, so unless you're going camping, the battery life is not that big of an advantage, more of a slight convenience thing all of these points are why tablet…

Tablets have strong light intensity that make them unsuitable for reading causing more eye strain than e-ink.

The first thing I did after trying to read on a tablet was to buy a Kindle.

Reading on a tablet, minutes, reading on a e-ink device, hours.

Re: What did Alan Kay and Steve Jobs talk about at the 2007 iPhone keynote?

#59
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"This guy badgered me about how Microsoft was going to completely change the world with this tablet PC software and eliminate all notebook computers, and Apple ought to license his Microsoft software. But he was doing the device all wrong. It had a stylus. As soon as your have a stylus, you’re dead. This dinner was like the tenth time he talked to me about it, and I was so sick of it that I came home and said, “Fuck…

Who really won though? Does anyone buy tablets anymore? I feel like I haven't seen one since 2015.

Yes they wiped out the netbooks.

Now at the old netbooks price range you can only find hybrid/detachable keyboard laptops.

Re: What did Alan Kay and Steve Jobs talk about at the 2007 iPhone keynote?

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. As a highly educated person, I had no idea I was choosing inferior tools! Thanks for letting me know. I gave all my nieces and nephews tablets, and they all used them, I hope I didn’t destroy their lives. Seriously, I have a hard time believing you can quote any evidence that a paper book is much better than a tablet for everyone. Which appears to be your assertion, although it’s hard to tell.

books can last decades. an ipad absolutely won’t.

I have a printed book that's the same age as the U.S. constitution (now 231 years) and another printed book that's a few decades older (293 years), both of which are still completely legible. "Decades" feels like a big understatement to me. :-)

We mostly think of paper as a poor archival medium because of a few decades, mainly at the end of the 19th century and the first half of the 20th century, when high-acid wood pulp paper was very widely used. (Newspapers are also sometimes printed on cheap acidic newsprint.) Acidic paper can become brittle within 20 years or so, or in any case much less than a century, although this also depends on many other factors. But both before and after this period, many books were printed on acid-free paper, and these are likely to survive for centuries, even with occasional use. The observations about paper's longevity in, for instance, Nicholson Baker's polemical Double Fold, tallies well with my experience as the son of a bookdealer. My father routinely sells books that are over a century old to people who fully expect to read them.

And I remember visiting an antiquarian book fair where a first folio Shakespeare was for sale for millions of dollars. It was still possible to turn the pages with no damage and all the printing was completely legible, even though the book was already 380 years old or so.

Books on low-acid paper are really a very durable technology when treated with respect.

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