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What did Alan Kay and Steve Jobs talk about at the 2007 iPhone keynote?

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Re: What did Alan Kay and Steve Jobs talk about at the 2007 iPhone keynote?

#41

Post by TeMPOraL »

jaysonelliot wrote: post #13
gok wrote: post #6

I always find the “make it this size and you’ll rule the world” quote interesting. The users I know who really love their iPads/tablets are closer to @alankay1’s generation. Younger generations don’t have much use for device that can’t fit in a pocket. I wonder how much the interest in iPad-sized devices came from years of using paper about that size.

The iPad that could rule the world hasn't been made yet. Once iOS and OS X completely merge, then we'll see. It's sized for creating things, but running the OS of a device made for consuming things.

It has been, it's called Microsoft Surface. It's sized for creating things and is running on the OS made for productive work. But it's expensive and made by a company that's not very much liked by people.

Re: What did Alan Kay and Steve Jobs talk about at the 2007 iPhone keynote?

#42

Post by tooltalk »

AceJohnny2 wrote: post #7

> (the Mac was done in 1984, 11 years after the more powerful and capable Parc Alto, which started working in 1973). I find this comment mildly irritating. The Alto apparently cost $40k [1] in (or around) 1973, which was equivalent to $95k in 1984 (or $232k today). Compare with the Mac which cost $2.5k in 1984. Sure, the Alto may have been more powerful, but if it was financially out of reach of almost everybody, it'…

why do you find that irritating? The Alto wasn't build for the mass market -- Xerox produced only several thousands units and used mostly internally. It was also developed when they didn't have all the necessary, affordable tech and parts that later made far more affordable copycats (ahem) possible. The Star was Xerox's first commercial product aimed at the mass (business) market -- but like the Lisa which came later didn't succeed because of their high cost.

Re: What did Alan Kay and Steve Jobs talk about at the 2007 iPhone keynote?

#43

Post by SllX »

maxerickson wrote: post #21
AceJohnny2 wrote: post #7

> (the Mac was done in 1984, 11 years after the more powerful and capable Parc Alto, which started working in 1973). I find this comment mildly irritating. The Alto apparently cost $40k [1] in (or around) 1973, which was equivalent to $95k in 1984 (or $232k today). Compare with the Mac which cost $2.5k in 1984. Sure, the Alto may have been more powerful, but if it was financially out of reach of almost everybody, it'…

I think he's well enough aware that the Mac was cheaper. For instance: https://www.forbes.com/sites/chunkamui/2017/04/04/7-steps-fo... It's not made very gracefully, but the point is that the Mac wasn't a big leap forward in capability, it was the consumer version of the thing they had working a decade earlier. Of course it's an open question what sort of computers Apple would have made if Jobs hadn't visited PARC.

It isn't any less an open question, but I think there's a good shot that Jef Raskin's original concept for the Macintosh would have made it to market under Apple's banner.

Possibly the best look we'll ever get at the type of Human-Computer Interface he wanted to build is written down in "The Humane Interface", although I believe he did, and correct me if I'm wrong, develop a system for Canon that implemented some of his designs.

Re: What did Alan Kay and Steve Jobs talk about at the 2007 iPhone keynote?

#44

Post by jasonkostempski »

greglindahl wrote: post #36
underwater wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t imagine writing something much more substantial than a couple of paragraphs. Typing is fine, but editing is so slow without a mouse.

Man, imagine what editing was like in the typewriter era! I assure you, I got good at not needing as much editing. Two drafts and done.

Until Mike Nesmith's mother changed the world :) But even then, trying to realign using that red line hovering half an inch off the surface of the paper made the mistakes obvious :/

Re: What did Alan Kay and Steve Jobs talk about at the 2007 iPhone keynote?

#45

Post by greglindahl »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #38
greglindahl wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh. I read on a tablet all of the time, I guess that makes me a prisoner of hype! Minority view, yes.

Education is not about just reading, but regardless - you know what's better for reading than an iPad? A paper book . And if your concern is weight, you know what combines the best qualities of a paper book and a tablet? An e-book reader with e-Ink display. (This is sad, really. As I understand, e-Ink tech is patented to death, so there's little progress there.) Still, I'm not saying iPads are useless in general. The…

Wow. As a highly educated person, I had no idea I was choosing inferior tools! Thanks for letting me know.

I gave all my nieces and nephews tablets, and they all used them, I hope I didn’t destroy their lives.

Seriously, I have a hard time believing you can quote any evidence that a paper book is much better than a tablet for everyone. Which appears to be your assertion, although it’s hard to tell.

Re: What did Alan Kay and Steve Jobs talk about at the 2007 iPhone keynote?

#46

Post by greglindahl »

ekianjo wrote: post #40
greglindahl wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh. I read on a tablet all of the time, I guess that makes me a prisoner of hype! Minority view, yes.

there are better devices for reading. Objectively.

And the source you are citing is... ?

And it would have to be a lot better to be the obvious choice for 100% of readers that some folks in this thread appear to think that it is.

Re: What did Alan Kay and Steve Jobs talk about at the 2007 iPhone keynote?

#47

Post by sincerely »

greglindahl wrote: post #45
TeMPOraL wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Education is not about just reading, but regardless - you know what's better for reading than an iPad? A paper book . And if your concern is weight, you know what combines the best qualities of a paper book and a tablet? An e-book reader with e-Ink display. (This is sad, really. As I understand, e-Ink tech is patented to death, so there's little progress there.) Still, I'm not saying iPads are useless in general. The…

Wow. As a highly educated person, I had no idea I was choosing inferior tools! Thanks for letting me know. I gave all my nieces and nephews tablets, and they all used them, I hope I didn’t destroy their lives. Seriously, I have a hard time believing you can quote any evidence that a paper book is much better than a tablet for everyone. Which appears to be your assertion, although it’s hard to tell.

books can last decades. an ipad absolutely won’t.

Re: What did Alan Kay and Steve Jobs talk about at the 2007 iPhone keynote?

#48

Post by make3 »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #38
greglindahl wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh. I read on a tablet all of the time, I guess that makes me a prisoner of hype! Minority view, yes.

Education is not about just reading, but regardless - you know what's better for reading than an iPad? A paper book . And if your concern is weight, you know what combines the best qualities of a paper book and a tablet? An e-book reader with e-Ink display. (This is sad, really. As I understand, e-Ink tech is patented to death, so there's little progress there.) Still, I'm not saying iPads are useless in general. The…

- e-ink has garbage level latency, which makes it useless for anything even slightly dynamic, including educational videos of course

- e-ink doesn't have color, color is helpful in educational material to make it friendly and accessible

- there are outlets everywhere, so unless you're going camping, the battery life is not that big of an advantage, more of a slight convenience thing

all of these points are why tablets aren't going anywhere

Re: What did Alan Kay and Steve Jobs talk about at the 2007 iPhone keynote?

#49

Post by gok »

bogomipz wrote: post #17

>"“Have I got a deal for you: a Honda with a one-quart gas tank!”. Steve did not like this memo, but what could he do given the history, and that it was quite true?" Can someone explain the joke? Also does anyone know how long Alan was with Apple?

I believe he left in 1997 when Jobs returned and Advanced Technology Group was shut down.

Re: What did Alan Kay and Steve Jobs talk about at the 2007 iPhone keynote?

#50

Post by axaxs »

greglindahl wrote: post #34
TeMPOraL wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or do Apple seriously believe the iPad as it is has a business chance in the cash-strapped education market? It does. It just has to sell on hype instead of any actual utility. It's a very common sales strategy.

Huh. I read on a tablet all of the time, I guess that makes me a prisoner of hype! Minority view, yes.

Are you a k12 student? If not, why are you replying at all? Anyone who asserts that iPads are a good choice for education are completely out of touch at best, or ignorant at worst. I'm sorry if this borders on a personal attack, but it feels like you're just looking for a reason to be offended.
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