how stable are these apis for even the next five years?
Ask HN: Do we still need native apps?
21–30 of 46 posts
Re: Ask HN: Do we still need native apps?
#22Yes. Web browsers are nice and offer a very low barrier to entry, but native apps have the opportunity to do things better. That could be faster startup, smaller installs, more integrated install management with the OS, better offline experience, more networking options including support for custom udp/tcp tailored to your application, etc.
Certainly it's possible to make a native app that is worse in these aspects, and some of these may become more addressable by web platforms in the future.
It also depends on your target market and budget. Developing countries still have plenty of devices with very little CPU or RAM. But targeting multiple native platforms is a lot of work, and different versions of the same platform can also be painful.
Re: Ask HN: Do we still need native apps?
#23No. I don't think we do. Writing native apps is a huge waste of time and resources. While the big players in the OS space were squabbling the web browsers snuck in and drank their milkshake.
Browsers / web apps are a more portable, and more productive method of distributing GUIs. Full stop.
When deciding to go native or not, you have to decide: Will you hire several designated IOS application developers, several Android application developers, and have them re-implement your website? Or will you hire the equivalent amount of front-end engineers and have them collaborate and develop the codebase together using a shared toolkit?
People moan about how it's slow, but they tend to miss the point: I don't work for a "writing native apps and make the apps fast" company. I work for a software company that builds a product and sells it to users. Developer familiarity == Speed == Money
And really: Do you honestly believe spending 300k a year on engineers to re-implement the same shit we've already written, but in a different language with completely different semantics is a good investment? Rewriting all of the work we've ALREADY done for our mobile view in CSS and HTML and Javascript in Objective-C and Java?
Unless you're writing software with INTENSE graphical requirements, and even THEN there is webgl, writing a native app brings no value. You could spend that time optimizing your website written in JS you've packaged as an IOS/Android app. Or, I don't know, implementing new features and actually bringing value to your company.
PWAs are much slower, but as time goes on this will be improved.
As for the electron haters: Show me a more productive way to implement GUI applications. Show me the applications and frameworks that are putting out GUIs that look even remotely as good as the Electron applications.
I think we're going to see a rise of PWAs and apps that are simply web browsers in disguise.
Edit: I'll also add that the "not always online" or "bandwidth" argument is bunk. Crazy idea: Package your web application as an app, and include it's dependencies and everything it needs to run. Once you do that, the "download once" advantage of a native app is bunk.
Re: Ask HN: Do we still need native apps?
#24Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think 4. applies to Native apps -- if we look at the App Store and the dreams of wannapreneurs it's mostly an App for that. Bet 98% of the apps on the App Store get a $1k in revenue/month
Hell, if that were true, I'd be making apps. I doubt that any but a small percentage of apps make any money at all.
I meant bet 98% don't make $1k in revenue. my bad
Re: Ask HN: Do we still need native apps?
#25Web vs Native is a non sequitur. It's really about distribution, control, and accountability. The question should be do we still need closed platforms?
couldn't agree more!
Re: Ask HN: Do we still need native apps?
#26If you ask me it should be the other way around, do we need web apps at all? 1. Most web "apps" actually only work on Chrome, so there's that. So much for the open, standardized web. 2. Most web apps track the heck out of everything you do. 3. Most web apps are sluggish and use more resources than they should. 4. Most web apps are like Juicero, expensive solutions to non existent problems.
> 1. Most web "apps" actually only work on Chrome, so there's that. So much for the open, standardized web.
This is completely anecdotal, so I'll volunteer my own anecdote: I've used Firefox for years and basically never run into issues. Sometimes a website will say "We don't support your browser", but if you change your user agent it works fine.
> 2. Most web apps track the heck out of everything you do.
So installing a native app with even MORE access to what you do is a better solution? How about Uber tracking you after you get out of your cab? To suggest this is a "web app" problem is false.
> 4. Most web apps are like Juicero, expensive solutions to non existent problems.
Haha, you are SO RIGHT about this one! One of my smell-tests for a web-app is: "Could your website be reasonably replaced with a spreadsheet?"
It's funny because I LOVE spreadsheets, and simply using a spreadsheet is better 99% of the time.
Re: Ask HN: Do we still need native apps?
#27Can web apps be updated without approval from the appstore or playstore? Just curious, having developed natively, this slowed me down the most.
Re: Ask HN: Do we still need native apps?
#28No. I don't think we do. Writing native apps is a huge waste of time and resources. While the big players in the OS space were squabbling the web browsers snuck in and drank their milkshake. Browsers / web apps are a more portable, and more productive method of distributing GUIs. Full stop. When deciding to go native or not, you have to decide: Will you hire several designated IOS application developers, several Andr…
yeah, I agree too. One of the cofounders of Figma wrote some webGL demos. Damn those things are fantastic. Even Figma too, is an excellent piece of web software that can easily replace too.
Re: Ask HN: Do we still need native apps?
#29Can web apps be updated without approval from the appstore or playstore? Just curious, having developed natively, this slowed me down the most.
yeah, just upload code to server! Whatever you've pointed to the url will be the latest and greatest. Seamless updates too
Re: Ask HN: Do we still need native apps?
#30No. I don't think we do. Writing native apps is a huge waste of time and resources. While the big players in the OS space were squabbling the web browsers snuck in and drank their milkshake. Browsers / web apps are a more portable, and more productive method of distributing GUIs. Full stop. When deciding to go native or not, you have to decide: Will you hire several designated IOS application developers, several Andr…
> People moan about how it's slow
No, I moan about how it's an abuse of my privacy, an abuse of my security & an abuse of the web itself.
Web pages which use JavaScript enable all sorts of malicious nastiness which plain websites do not. They are impossible to properly secure (in that I get a new version every time I open it up). They are not what the WWW was meant to be.
No thank you.