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European Copyright Law Could Soon Get Worse

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31–40 of 126 posts

Re: European Copyright Law Could Soon Get Worse

#31

"The biggest and most worrisome changes are to the "link tax" proposal, which would establish a special copyright-like fee to be paid by websites to news publishers, in exchange for the privilege of using short snippets of quoted text as part of a link to the original news article. Voss's latest amendments would make the link tax an inalienable right, that news publishers cannot waive even if they choose to." "...tha…

That's a strange interpretation, and I say it doesn't seem like you're trying too hard to assume good faith.

The EU is worried about publishers both big and small. Currently, investing half a year's worth of a journalist's work into investigations is a rather bad business decision, because everyone can freely reuse the facts you uncovered: spend a year finding corruption, write it up in a day, 10 minutes later it's on AP.

Ther 'inalienable' is to ensure you're not pressured into giving those rights away by a stronger actor such as Google. The principle is the same that makes it impossible for you to agree to buy something new without warranty.

Your idea also doesn't make much sense because the current crisis of journalism has hit smaller publishers hardest. The New York Times will survive. The Bodunken Tribune is probably long dead already. And the major players for centralization are obviously Google and Facebook, the two largest targets of this legislation.

All this DOES NOT mean I believe this proposal to be a good idea! I think it's too much beaurocracy for too little effect, plus probably unintended consequences.

But it's hard to completely disregard the true motivation and ascribe malice.

Re: European Copyright Law Could Soon Get Worse

#32
post #22

There was a previous discussion based on a similar article from Creative Commons a couple days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16810999 c3o (Christopher Clay), who works in the EU Parliament according to his profile, posted several informative comments including one explaining the backstory behind the proposed legislation: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16812099 > The back story of the law may shed so…

This dude seems to think that it's a dick measuring contest, when it reality it boils down to a cost-benefit analysis. If Google thinks it will lose money, it will shut down the service.

Re: European Copyright Law Could Soon Get Worse

#33
post #16

If Kryder's Law holds, then by 2030 local hard drives will store petabytes (4x library of congress or 500 mp4 years). 32 terabyte thumb drives will cost $10. Routes around ISP's will be plentiful. How can copyright survive?

Because it’s a huge “if” and assumes that by 2030 the A/V standard won’t grow as well? I hope you’re right, but past performed is not a guarantee of future gains.

>but past performed is not a guarantee of future gains

Yes, but to your question regarding A/V standards, that works both ways. While past performance often isn't a great predictor, human biological specs are a decent predictor for the near future. If we take 8k as the current bleeding edge (given actual beyond-the-lab 8k screens exist, albeit at horrendous bleeding edge pricing), we're somewhere around one more doubling (quadrupling of pixels) away from the point where the number of image elements will literally exceed the number of retina in a human eye. Now yeah, the human eye jitters around a fair amount, and maybe there'd be some value in peripheral vision coverage too in theory, but even taking all of that into consideration to be very conservative we're still rapidly approaching the point where our display tech can exceed the limits of human visual acuity, at which point it's reasonable to predict that we will in fact be "done" when it comes to A/V standards (post-human seems farther away then 2030). And even that is getting into heavily diminishing returns territory.

It really does make for something interesting to think about, similar to that of audio where we've already been "done" for a long time now. We've lived in an era where a significant amount of innovation and money flowing around and such came out of a lot of work to ever more closely match our synthetic light outputs to the input capabilities of our vision systems. But that's not a forever thing, our vision system is such a powerful part of our senses that it's been a very hard target, but there is in fact a hard physical limit there. When it's reached, and there will be no more video format changes ever again, and no more screen changes ever again, no more chances to sell "remastered" and "updated" versions of older visual products, etc., it may make for some real changes in the industry.

And to GP's point, the theoretical limits of information storage in matter do seem to be a lot farther beyond the theoretical end of information requirements necessary to match a human's AV. Optimistically for all parties though, the music scene seems to have done alright through that transition so far, on both the production/industry and consumer side (where we enjoy near universal DRM free high quality competition). Granted, that was after a lot of very ugly thrashing...

Re: European Copyright Law Could Soon Get Worse

#34
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You must have a really short memory to say that "regulators are not enemies". Just look at any history book, tell me what you find. Since English is not my first language, it tires me to write in it, so I'll give a little example that will destroy the "GDPR protects privacy" once and for all. If I make a website with a comment system, or maybe a forum, I need to reveal to the world my identity otherwise the EU will g…

That would require that you provide a service within the EU and that you store personal data, neither of which you do in your example.

if I have a forum I store the email of the users so they can recover the password. Same thing if I put up a simple newsletter to contact my users, I have their emails (newsletters may not be fashionable but they're much more effective than using a facebook page or other systems, since you own the email list of people who want to hear from you).

So, even in the boring world of small websites, you have to comply.

Re: European Copyright Law Could Soon Get Worse

#35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This would only matter if you’re profiting from your fetish forum, which seems unlikely. Plus you’d need to have an EU presence, otherwise who cares and who would force you? There’s nothing stopping you from ignoring GDPR in the scenarios you describe. Being a small hobby forum pretty much let’s you pretend GDPR doesn’t exist, while being the likes or FaceBook makes it impossible to ignore.

The law is for everyone, it doesn't matter if I profit from it or how big I am, I still have to reveal who I am if I take data that is often needed, like emails in a forum.

We’ll have to se how it plays out, but I suspect if you operate a small site outside of the EU you won’t be impacted.

Re: European Copyright Law Could Soon Get Worse

#36
post #32
post #22

There was a previous discussion based on a similar article from Creative Commons a couple days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16810999 c3o (Christopher Clay), who works in the EU Parliament according to his profile, posted several informative comments including one explaining the backstory behind the proposed legislation: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16812099 > The back story of the law may shed so…

This dude seems to think that it's a dick measuring contest, when it reality it boils down to a cost-benefit analysis. If Google thinks it will lose money, it will shut down the service.

This was mentioned in the other thread as well - and it's a scenario that publishers would love, as it puts them back in control of "news portals".

Re: European Copyright Law Could Soon Get Worse

#37

"The biggest and most worrisome changes are to the "link tax" proposal, which would establish a special copyright-like fee to be paid by websites to news publishers, in exchange for the privilege of using short snippets of quoted text as part of a link to the original news article. Voss's latest amendments would make the link tax an inalienable right, that news publishers cannot waive even if they choose to." "...tha…

That's a strange interpretation, and I say it doesn't seem like you're trying too hard to assume good faith. The EU is worried about publishers both big and small. Currently, investing half a year's worth of a journalist's work into investigations is a rather bad business decision, because everyone can freely reuse the facts you uncovered: spend a year finding corruption, write it up in a day, 10 minutes later it's o…

The way I look at it is it will constrain the ability to deliver news to those who can afford to produce original content, which will be larger outlets with more resources. This allows a vastly smaller group to control the narrative.

How will this effect google or facebook at all?

Anyone with a blog looking to quote a news outlet and provide commentary is now mandatorily taxed? How do you NOT see this as bad? What good can come of it at all?

Re: European Copyright Law Could Soon Get Worse

#38

"The biggest and most worrisome changes are to the "link tax" proposal, which would establish a special copyright-like fee to be paid by websites to news publishers, in exchange for the privilege of using short snippets of quoted text as part of a link to the original news article. Voss's latest amendments would make the link tax an inalienable right, that news publishers cannot waive even if they choose to." "...tha…

That's a strange interpretation, and I say it doesn't seem like you're trying too hard to assume good faith. The EU is worried about publishers both big and small. Currently, investing half a year's worth of a journalist's work into investigations is a rather bad business decision, because everyone can freely reuse the facts you uncovered: spend a year finding corruption, write it up in a day, 10 minutes later it's o…

If a newspaper in a town of 1,000 people was devoting half a year of a reporter's work to a single investigation, that newspaper was already going to fail as a business. Even if every link to the eventual story required the linker to pay €100, because in that case people would just refuse to link.

There is nothing good about link taxes. And sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.

Meanwhile, this cannot help even responsibly-run small news organizations, because it will just direct all the large aggregators and large news companies to make deals with each other, and the small news companies will get zero links and collect zero "link tax", and small/new aggregators will not be able to afford to operate. Result: large organizations stay large, small ones continue going out of business.

Someone on Twitter earlier was saying journalism has a history of relying on rich people who don't mind losing money (the modern example being Bezos and the Washington Post), and that we're trending back that way. Anyone who can't find a patron is probably going to go out of business no matter what.

(unless you'd like to have news organizations be funded by government, which can work but has its own set of problems)

Re: European Copyright Law Could Soon Get Worse

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a strange interpretation, and I say it doesn't seem like you're trying too hard to assume good faith. The EU is worried about publishers both big and small. Currently, investing half a year's worth of a journalist's work into investigations is a rather bad business decision, because everyone can freely reuse the facts you uncovered: spend a year finding corruption, write it up in a day, 10 minutes later it's o…

The way I look at it is it will constrain the ability to deliver news to those who can afford to produce original content, which will be larger outlets with more resources. This allows a vastly smaller group to control the narrative. How will this effect google or facebook at all? Anyone with a blog looking to quote a news outlet and provide commentary is now mandatorily taxed? How do you NOT see this as bad? What go…

> How will this effect google or facebook at all?

Google and Facebook show titles and quotes of linked articles. This legislation is specifically aimed at them. Noncommercial actors (bloggers etc) are supposed to be exempt.

> How do you NOT see this as bad?

It is extremely frustrating how people on HN apparently have no ability to acknowledge a valid argument for a position they oppose. Read the last two paragraphs of my post again. It clearly states, in rule-braking all-caps even, that I do not support this legislation.

> What good can come of it at all?

It will shift (as you note) money from those reprinting news to those producing original content. The former is cheap, commoditized, and in no danger. The latter is fundamental for a functioning democracy.

Re: European Copyright Law Could Soon Get Worse

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The law is for everyone, it doesn't matter if I profit from it or how big I am, I still have to reveal who I am if I take data that is often needed, like emails in a forum.

We’ll have to se how it plays out, but I suspect if you operate a small site outside of the EU you won’t be impacted.

Of course you won’t be impacted, but your protection is via selective enforcement. You won’t be in compliance with the law, but the government will lack the resources or determination to punish you. Until that changes.

This is fundamentally dangerous. Once we are all lawbreakers all the time, it creates a powerful tool for oppression and using the law to harass and silence political opponents.

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