In a Leaked Memo, Apple Warns Employees to Stop Leaking Information • Hacker News Board

Re: In a Leaked Memo, Apple Warns Employees to Stop Leaking Information

#71

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 7:56 PM UTC

IBM wrote: post #30

yodon wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I’ve never understood what the employee gets out of it The intelligence services have done a great deal of research into the persona of the press leaker/Wikileaks leaker (as distinct from the more traditional espionage leaker). A common trait is for the press leaker to be either highly over-qualified for their job or believe themselves to be over-qualified for their job. The belief coming out of that research is a s…

I can come up with plausible reasons for why intelligence leakers do what they do (sense of duty, serving public interest, etc). I can't come up with any for an Apple employee. The leaks an Apple employee makes is about inconsequential stuff like what features the next iPhone will have. It's not even in the same ballpark as someone who is leaking something illegal going on at the company or someone at Facebook leakin…

[deleted]

Re: In a Leaked Memo, Apple Warns Employees to Stop Leaking Information

#72

Post by mattsfrey » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 7:56 PM UTC

The most disconcerting thing about this is how effective their security measures appear to be. One has to imagine how pervasive their surveillance is to catch this many leakers.

Re: In a Leaked Memo, Apple Warns Employees to Stop Leaking Information

#73

Post by greedo » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 7:56 PM UTC

alexandercrohde wrote: post #45

greedo wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People leak/gossip/whistleblow for a variety of reasons: 1. Immediate Financial - They either have a direct quid-pro-quo with the leak recipient, or stand to benefit directly from the leak. 2. Disagreement with the direction/decision-making - They want Apple to do something different, and internal (legitimate) attempts to influence this decision have failed; usually because the leaker doesn't have the political capit…

Can we not group whistleblowing, a usually-legal heroic action of reporting immoral/illegal behavior (to the extent that you can be awarded millions of dollars by the government for whistelblowing) with leaking trivial product details?

If you think the motives of whistleblowers are as pure as the driven snow, we'll just have to agree to disagree. #2 covers their actions, but not all whistleblowers are related to Mother Teresa.

Re: In a Leaked Memo, Apple Warns Employees to Stop Leaking Information

#74

Post by tajen » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 7:58 PM UTC

foobaw wrote: post #36

This highly contrasts Netflix, which barely has any leaks, although discloses almost all their information to employees. Is it Apple's company size and culture that make leaks inevitable?

Maybe Netflix is a young company with a lot of growth. Maybe Apple has a proportion of disgruntled employees because everyone has been suffering their secrecy for 20 years and some might be upset about their career paths, without being allowed to talk about it. It just takes 10 leakers for a full year of news.

Re: In a Leaked Memo, Apple Warns Employees to Stop Leaking Information

#75

Post by Anderkent » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 7:59 PM UTC

Cyph0n wrote: post #64

jadedhacker wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a little skeptical. The intelligence services would say something that would make you skeptical of the motivations of leakers. If they're selfishly motivated the public doesn't mind them being locked up and put into isolation and tortured in ways that don't leave a mark. The leakers that come to mind immediately are Edward Snowden and Chelsea Manning whom both suffered greatly for their leaks (Snowden had to leav…

Didn't Manning leak classified information that threatened the lives of foreign operatives? I never understood why Snowden and Manning are put on equal footing in that regard.

Because it is equally important that the us invasion be seen for what it is, as it was for nsa to be seen for what it is. Collateral murder itself was probably big enough to warrant the risk to us spies

Re: In a Leaked Memo, Apple Warns Employees to Stop Leaking Information

#76

Post by snowwrestler » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 8:00 PM UTC

jadedhacker wrote: post #37

yodon wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I’ve never understood what the employee gets out of it The intelligence services have done a great deal of research into the persona of the press leaker/Wikileaks leaker (as distinct from the more traditional espionage leaker). A common trait is for the press leaker to be either highly over-qualified for their job or believe themselves to be over-qualified for their job. The belief coming out of that research is a s…

I'm a little skeptical. The intelligence services would say something that would make you skeptical of the motivations of leakers. If they're selfishly motivated the public doesn't mind them being locked up and put into isolation and tortured in ways that don't leave a mark. The leakers that come to mind immediately are Edward Snowden and Chelsea Manning whom both suffered greatly for their leaks (Snowden had to leav…

The notion that leakers are driven in part by ego was not invented by the CIA. It's well-known and exploited by reporters.

As an example there's a short discussion in the recent movie The Post where Post reporters are trying to figure out who leaked the Pentagon Papers. Ben Bagdikian says something like these guys are always a bit of a showboat and it leads him to remember Ellsberg at Rand.

EDIT to add: the CIA is interested in why people leak because the #1 job of the CIA is to create leakers in other countries.

You mention locking people up, but that is not the CIA's job. The FBI is the counter-intelligence lead in the U.S.

Re: In a Leaked Memo, Apple Warns Employees to Stop Leaking Information

#77

Post by erichurkman » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 8:01 PM UTC

icebraining wrote: post #50

greedo wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tom Clancy called it the Canary Trap. Each document had very slight differences, and were tracked to each recipient so leaks could be found.

Also commonly used in digital watermarks: each copy has an unique variation.

See also inserting zero-width characters in text that don't show when you copy and paste: https://medium.com/@umpox/be-careful-what-you-copy-invisibly...

Re: In a Leaked Memo, Apple Warns Employees to Stop Leaking Information

#78

Post by ghaff » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 8:03 PM UTC

ken wrote: post #63

foobaw wrote: post #36

This highly contrasts Netflix, which barely has any leaks, although discloses almost all their information to employees. Is it Apple's company size and culture that make leaks inevitable?

It's possible, but I don't think that's the primary factor. Netflix is a software/service company. When they've got something new, they can just ship it right away. Or if they decide to change something at the last minute, they can do that. Apple is a hardware company, and they produce everything at volume (millions of units). Their products, by nature, have long lead times. The design must be finalized well before i…

Aside from new shows (which are pretty much announced once they're green-lit), it's a bit hard for me to think of much at Netflix that the tech press is waiting to find out with baited breath. We're rolling out a new recommendation engine that gives even worse results than before?

I'm sure there are some things but there are very few tech company announcement details (outside of financial results) that so many people are anxious to learn ahead of time as specs and features of upcoming Apple products.

Re: In a Leaked Memo, Apple Warns Employees to Stop Leaking Information

#79

Post by michaelmrose » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 8:04 PM UTC

Cyph0n wrote: post #64

jadedhacker wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a little skeptical. The intelligence services would say something that would make you skeptical of the motivations of leakers. If they're selfishly motivated the public doesn't mind them being locked up and put into isolation and tortured in ways that don't leave a mark. The leakers that come to mind immediately are Edward Snowden and Chelsea Manning whom both suffered greatly for their leaks (Snowden had to leav…

Didn't Manning leak classified information that threatened the lives of foreign operatives? I never understood why Snowden and Manning are put on equal footing in that regard.

Citation needed.

Re: In a Leaked Memo, Apple Warns Employees to Stop Leaking Information

#80

Post by cavanasm » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 8:06 PM UTC

smudgymcscmudge wrote: post #56

koolba wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I completely understand what's in it for the reporter, but I've never understood what the employee gets out of it. I've been reading Mark Gurman's scoops about Apple for years so I'm definitely biased in wanting that to continue. It just seems like there's tons of upside for the reporter and only downside for the leaker. There's four reasons people leak information: 1. Out of moral responsibility to report unsafe o…

Somewhere on there should be personal vendettas. More than once I’ve seen screenshots of internal conversations on Business Insider that were clearly motivated by a desire to get that person fired.

I think that's sort of related to #2, "to get even for some perceived slight" although parent is specifically mentioning organization and not an individual in the org.