Road safety tips from Sweden • Hacker News Board

Re: Road safety tips from Sweden

#81

Post by berg01 » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 5:34 PM UTC

kilotaras wrote: post #79

berg01 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kind of related: There's a small Swedish state-owned (soon to be privatized though) consulting company with about 15 people that exists with the sole purpose of exporting this know-how to other countries. It's been relatively successful in selected developing countries. The know-how is typically given away for free, only actual work (training etc) is charged for. http://www.sweroad.se/ They haven't been hugely succes…

Person from (semi)developing country here (Ukraine). Car is often seen as status symbol due to Soviet baggage. This leads to disregard of some traffic laws that are about "lesser status" pedestrians, e.g. speed limits, sidewalks parking, etc. The trend is slowly changing though with traffic calming measures becoming more common. This leads to a good number of accidents with drivers who can't ignore laws of physics as…

It should be noted that apart from alcohol aspects, Swedish road safety thinking systematically treats the human behavior as something that can not be changed with training, propaganda etc. The only thing that works is to change the environment to fit the human, and to make the human behave safely.

Re: Road safety tips from Sweden

#82

Post by mkempe » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 5:39 PM UTC

Steltek wrote: post #63

rightnow wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Father of two twin kids at 3.5 years. Its not hard at all. They climb in themselves, and if u have a seat with adjustable iso-fix bars you get enough room for the front seats.

How do larger rear facing seats even fit in smaller European cars? Is your front passenger seat folded all the way down? When we were last car shopping, we looked at small SUVs (CRV, Rav4, Forester) and a rear facing seat mounted "American-style" still intruded on the passenger seat. I can't imagine how you could shift the seat forwards in a sedan and make it work.

We bought our car seats from Volvo in Sweden because they are designed differently than what is available on the US market, in particular and as mentioned in the article there is a metal bar that rests on the ground to support the seat. It makes a huge difference in improving the angle of the seat and saving space for the sake of the front passenger seat (as well as improving accessibility to install the child, or let her climb in when she grows older/stronger). You can see that in the sled-test photos included in the article (US row vs Swedish row); you can also see that the Swedish car seats provide a much better side-envelope of protection for the children.

Re: Road safety tips from Sweden

#83

Post by Numberwang » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 5:40 PM UTC

riffic wrote: post #57

Numberwang wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm just thinking that to my mind it is very rare to hear about old people causing accidents (injuring someone else.) Alcoholics on the other hand cause a massive amount of accidents.

> accidents Engaging in criminal behavior would be negligence, not accidental. http://justicespeakersinstitute.com/traffic-crashes-theyre-n...

Interesting article. Negligence sounds like such a mild word though.

Re: Road safety tips from Sweden

#84

Post by thatfrenchguy » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 5:44 PM UTC

checkyoursudo wrote: post #77

lemming wrote: post #6

Our 4 year old daughter uses a Swedish rear-facing car seat, and she seems fine with it. I'm sure she would prefer a front facing one because she'd be able to see more, but since she was 3 she's been able to see pretty well. It's definitely not uncomfortably small for her. A woman asked a friend of ours "how do you get your kid to eat brown bread?" and our friend replied "she doesn't know there's any other kind". I t…

That's how my kids eat brown bread (whole wheat bread). I don't know whether they know about white bread, but they certainly don't have access to it at home. They either eat whole wheat bread or they don't eat bread, and I don't care either way. I make really good sandwiches. If they want one, then they can have one. :)

You should probably buy bread without sugar in it though for you and your kids.

Re: Road safety tips from Sweden

#85

Post by eesmith » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 5:47 PM UTC

aesclepius wrote: post #62

JetSetWilly wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a bit worrying, there's no real evidence that rear facing seats improve outcomes for children, and similarly there's no real evidence that bicycle helmets improve outcomes for people in bicycle accidents. But somehow, the "safety industry" has leapt on these things and now everybody has a ludicrously fearful attitude to cycling and you get looked at funny (or even harassed by strangers) if you dare to let your…

While I don't know about rear-facing seats for outcomes, having cycled recreationally and for commute for the last 10 years, wearing a helmet has on multiple occasions saved me (yes I understand anecdata of 1) from mild lacerations to letting me walk away from a 40 mile downhill crash with road rash. Cycling without a helmet is a personal decision, but I don't understand how you can argue that increased head protecti…

There's a section in the Wikipedia page for bike helmets about this topic, at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_helmet#Opinions_for_an... .

Re: Road safety tips from Sweden

#86

Post by eesmith » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 5:55 PM UTC

jlarsson89 wrote: post #36

bjoli wrote: post #21

We also don't hand out driver's licenses left and right to anyone with the ability to find the correct pedals. From what I have seen in the states, you average bad swedish driver would be an american interstate wunderkind.

On the other hand plenty of people that really should have theirs taken away don't get theirs taken away, like old people with clear mental issues or people with bad eye sight that affect their ability to see people crossing roads etc.

One difficulty is that it is much harder to live in the US without a car, while Sweden has a much better public transportation system.

Take away someone's license in the US and it can be almost impossible for them to buy food, go to work, etc. I tried once living without a car for a month, and it only reason it was possible was because I lived near the center of town ... and because I bummed a few rides when I didn't feel like making the 45 minute walk home at night.

Re: Road safety tips from Sweden

#87

Post by analog31 » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 6:08 PM UTC

bryanlarsen wrote: post #78

aesclepius wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I don't know about rear-facing seats for outcomes, having cycled recreationally and for commute for the last 10 years, wearing a helmet has on multiple occasions saved me (yes I understand anecdata of 1) from mild lacerations to letting me walk away from a 40 mile downhill crash with road rash. Cycling without a helmet is a personal decision, but I don't understand how you can argue that increased head protecti…

There are three major factors: - Cycling accidents under 20mph are highly unlikely to cause head injuries, and most cycling is done under 20mph so there's little room for improvement. - Helmets are not designed to protect against the kind of injuries received in an accident with a car. - Perhaps most importantly, the phenomenon called risk normalization. Cyclists wearing helmets take more risks than cyclists who don'…

>>> Cyclists wearing helmets take more risks than cyclists who don't, and cars interacting with cyclists give more space to cyclists who aren't wearing helmets.

Is this supported by evidence (aside from the oft cited but unscientific University of Bath study)?

Re: Road safety tips from Sweden

#88

Post by TomK32 » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 6:26 PM UTC

ed_balls wrote: post #52

briandear wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trouble breathing? You’re probably wearing the seatbelt wrong. It goes across the chest, not around one’s neck. If one is that delicate that the light touch of a chest belt causes difficulty breathing, then one might ought to drive oneself to a hospital post haste.

I know a person that has papers from the doctor to show it to the police. He's morbidly obese and has a medical condition, which causes trouble breathing.

But he's okay with driving a car despite his condition?

Re: Road safety tips from Sweden

#89

Post by wink » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 6:43 PM UTC

yodsanklai wrote: post #26

Freak_NL wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is the normal response in countries that completed the cultural transition from 'no seatbelts' to 'never without a seatbelt', but not all countries started this transition at the same time, and some will take longer than others due to various cultural and political factors, such as the actual risk of getting fined for the offense and the effect of the publicity campaigns. Not using a seatbelt was the norm only f…

I remember when we made the transition in my country, about 35 years ago. My mother was pissed off that the government forced her to use the seatbelt. She got herself a doctor note stating she couldn't use it for medical reasons... And a little more recently, people were complaining when we had to wear it on the rear seats, or in buses.

Maybe it's also how your parents prime you with the necessity. While seatbelts for cars have been mandatory since 1976 in Germany for trucks over 3.5t it's only been since 1992 and I do remember riding in a truck that didn't even have seatbelts (thus it was still ok to ride without) in the early 90s and have an uneasy feeling. Maybe my parents were adamant enough to always wear a seatbelt in the car (at the same time)... Wouldn't say I was scared, but apparently I believed them it was a good thing :P

Re: Road safety tips from Sweden

#90

Post by acdha » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 6:52 PM UTC

isostatic wrote: post #72

megaman22 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yikes, you wouldn't catch me on a bike on most roads in any of the rural areas that I've ever lived in (northeast). Good way to get creamed by a pulp truck - maybe 25% of roads have a paved shoulder, and those that do are typically high-speed (55mph), high-traffic routes.

Why is it culturally acceptable to murder people in the US?

Part of it is that we make a lot of excuses for drivers since car ownership was a key part of the American self image for the 20th century. That also meant that there was an assumption that bicyclist meant poor and often non-white, adding that pressure to assume the victim was at fault.

The self-image and idea of what a successful American is supposed to look like wasn’t something I thought about until my cycling group had unpleasant encounters with bitterly resentful drivers in San Diego county. All middle-aged or older white guys driving expensive vehicles, clearly unimpressed by California law if it involves sharing with people unlike them. I should also note that our group was rather scrupulous about the rules of the road so it wasn’t a case of escalating bad behavior.