Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost

#31

Post by DanHulton » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 6:18 PM UTC

amluto wrote: post #17

atonse wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that simple. Until literally 3 days ago I held exactly your same view "why don't they just become Apple authorized repair shops?" Well, apparently Apple actually restricts the repairs you can do. For example, if you have water damage, you aren't allowed to just fix the actual components (capacitors, etc) that blew, you have to replace the whole board, resulting in much higher costs and eWaste for customers.…

I have another not-very-green issue: my iPhone lightning port is wearing out. Apple will not repair it in their own shops. At least they don’t seem to try to prevent third parties from doing it. This is especially surprising given the unusual design of the Lightning port. Most ports (e.g. all USB variants) put the parts that are likely to wear out in the cable. Lightning has them in the jack, which is why the cable i…

So, I thought my port was wearing out as well, and got very upset. What I found, however, was just that pocket lint had gotten jammed in there and compacted down over and over through the years, such that the cable didn't fit snugly any more.

I fixed this just by using a plastic flosser to pick the lint out (you could use a paper clip, but I opted for the somewhat-softer plastic), then some canned air to get rid of the remaining bits.

Went from "oh god, I gotta go to the Apple store" to connecting with a SNAP again, with a seal tight enough to support the phone's entire weight.

I hope that this is just your issue, because it's very easy to fix, even if diagnosing it is a bit tricky.

Re: Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost

#32

Post by Someone1234 » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 6:20 PM UTC

urda wrote: post #20

Someone1234 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Louis Rossmann, who openly admitted to using illegally obtained schematics and internal documents from Apple? I wouldn't be throwing that name around as a talking point at all in this discussion. So you're discounting someone's opinion because they were forced to use unauthorized repair manuals since the manufacturer stopped producing repair manuals for devices customers have paid for? That's the whole crux of the…

> So you're discounting someone's opinion because they were forced to use unauthorized repair manuals because the manufacturer stopped producing repair manuals for devices customers have paid for? Yes, because it's a legal case we are discussing here and that's called "breaking the law". Failing to understand that means I cannot discuss this article with you at all since a really important common understanding has be…

> Yes, because it's a legal case we are discussing here and that's called "breaking the law".

It is an issue for society at large, fair use should include repair materials, and if you look at judgements from vehicles and farm equipment cases you'll see that the legal side isn't clear cut anyway.

Not least of all because you're conflating OWNING stolen materials and REDISTRIBUTING them. Copyright largely covers the latter and not the former. In this case they're simply owning a "stolen" document and using the knowledge from it, which isn't within itself a copyright infringement or illegal.

Unless you can explain how simply owning a stolen document is "breaking the law." Which law?

> Failing to understand that means I cannot discuss this article with you at all since a really important common understanding has been missed on your part.

You don't wish to discuss it because it challenges your whole viewpoint. Which is in essence that Apple's rights extend into a device they sold to a user, and that a user shouldn't be legally allowed to "tamper" with their own property.

Re: Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost

#33

Post by Someone1234 » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 6:22 PM UTC

ksk wrote: post #27

I worry they're going to come after us programmers next. Only "authorized" programmers will get the access code required to change anything. Microsoft, Apple, Dell, etc will control the access codes. "Programming is hard, and these untrained self-taught programmers can mess up your machine, they might install malware, or they might be hackers, or they might overclock your CPU and damage it, or they might use the syst…

Isn't this exactly how iOS works currently? You literally cannot develop for it without signing an Apple contract (even non-App store apps require a user account/agreement).

Re: Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost

#34

Post by ksk » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 6:23 PM UTC

urda wrote: post #28

ksk wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The reason why Apple doesn't want any Joe-schmoe just yanking and replacing caps and other components is simple: quality control. I can barely count on two hands people I would be comfortable working on the innards of a PC, let alone my phone and even then let alone desoldering and soldering new components onboard. And yet people are perfectly OK with a greasy mechanic fixing their metal cage hurtling down the freew…

> And yet people are perfectly OK with a greasy mechanic fixing their metal cage hurtling down the freeway at 65 miles per hour. Your attempt to demean skilled repair workers is rather telling of your own bias. Woah I didn't know you could read my mind! For a matter of fact, I'm also very picky on who works or touches my car just for your information. Drop the strawman it's unbecoming. Second, there's an entire indus…

>Woah I didn't know you could read my mind!

Oh, but you certainly are able to determine the skill level of people you don't know. Nice.

Quoting you:

>The reason why Apple doesn't want any Joe-schmoe just yanking and replacing caps and other components is simple: quality control.

You called them joe-schmoe, and questioned the quality of their work. Yeah, maybe in your alternate universe that considered praise. Normal people read that as an insult.

Let me suggest some alternate wording "a competent technician will use their extensive knowledge, and repair your device"

>Drop the attacks and focus on the article, this is HN not reddit.

I would invite you to take your own advice first.

>I didn't mention anything about skilled repair workers, nor is that demeaning to point out the abilities to repair small electronic devices like phones is not just a "walk in the park".

Please point to the text arguing that repairing devices is a "walk in the park".

Re: Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost

#35

Post by landryraccoon » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 6:23 PM UTC

urda wrote: post #20

Someone1234 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Louis Rossmann, who openly admitted to using illegally obtained schematics and internal documents from Apple? I wouldn't be throwing that name around as a talking point at all in this discussion. So you're discounting someone's opinion because they were forced to use unauthorized repair manuals since the manufacturer stopped producing repair manuals for devices customers have paid for? That's the whole crux of the…

> So you're discounting someone's opinion because they were forced to use unauthorized repair manuals because the manufacturer stopped producing repair manuals for devices customers have paid for? Yes, because it's a legal case we are discussing here and that's called "breaking the law". Failing to understand that means I cannot discuss this article with you at all since a really important common understanding has be…

> Yes, because it's a legal case we are discussing here and that's called "breaking the law".

Even if this is true, the law isn’t some divine fiat. Some laws are dumb and it is proper and patriotic to point it out and criticize. Just because something might be against the law doesn’t make it wrong. Your argument is the shallowest sort of moral argument, that things should be done a certain way just because that’s how they’re done.

Re: Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost

#36

Post by mattsfrey » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 6:26 PM UTC

ksk wrote: post #27

I worry they're going to come after us programmers next. Only "authorized" programmers will get the access code required to change anything. Microsoft, Apple, Dell, etc will control the access codes. "Programming is hard, and these untrained self-taught programmers can mess up your machine, they might install malware, or they might be hackers, or they might overclock your CPU and damage it, or they might use the syst…

For the time being, at least in the US, reverse engineering is fully protected by well established precedent. Some nations have laws designed to stop "hackers" that outlaw some of the methodologies used in reverse engineering, which I heavily oppose for this reasoning.

Re: Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost

#37

Post by Someone1234 » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 6:27 PM UTC

urda wrote: post #28

ksk wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The reason why Apple doesn't want any Joe-schmoe just yanking and replacing caps and other components is simple: quality control. I can barely count on two hands people I would be comfortable working on the innards of a PC, let alone my phone and even then let alone desoldering and soldering new components onboard. And yet people are perfectly OK with a greasy mechanic fixing their metal cage hurtling down the freew…

> And yet people are perfectly OK with a greasy mechanic fixing their metal cage hurtling down the freeway at 65 miles per hour. Your attempt to demean skilled repair workers is rather telling of your own bias. Woah I didn't know you could read my mind! For a matter of fact, I'm also very picky on who works or touches my car just for your information. Drop the strawman it's unbecoming. Second, there's an entire indus…

> Drop the attacks and focus on the article, this is HN not reddit.

You cannot credibly post that when you yourself minutes earlier posted this:

> Failing to understand that means I cannot discuss this article with you at all since a really important common understanding has been missed on your part.

Want to follow your own advice?

Re: Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost

#38

Post by Clubber » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 6:27 PM UTC

mattsfrey wrote: post #30

"Apple does not ‘own’ the product after they have sold it" I think this is the crux of the issue. The guy was importing refurbished parts with the logos covered even. They weren't counterfeits. How does a manufacturer have the right to sue for copyright infringement when it's just end users reselling authentic parts? The owner even states he in no way markets them as OEM parts. Frankly I think it's pretty obvious app…

Yes, this certainly isn't good optics. I would think Apple would be smarter than have something like this in the paper.

Re: Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost

#39

Post by urda » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 6:29 PM UTC

Someone1234 wrote: post #37

urda wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And yet people are perfectly OK with a greasy mechanic fixing their metal cage hurtling down the freeway at 65 miles per hour. Your attempt to demean skilled repair workers is rather telling of your own bias. Woah I didn't know you could read my mind! For a matter of fact, I'm also very picky on who works or touches my car just for your information. Drop the strawman it's unbecoming. Second, there's an entire indus…

> Drop the attacks and focus on the article, this is HN not reddit. You cannot credibly post that when you yourself minutes earlier posted this: > Failing to understand that means I cannot discuss this article with you at all since a really important common understanding has been missed on your part. Want to follow your own advice?

> > Failing to understand that means I cannot discuss this article with you at all since a really important common understanding has been missed on your part.

> Want to follow your own advice?

That's not a personal attack at all, and if you think it is you really are lost here on HN.

So I'll remind you again and end further discussion: I cannot discuss this article with you at all because not only did you fail to see the original point but now you're just looking to troll about.

Re: Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost

#40

Post by mattsfrey » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 6:29 PM UTC

Someone1234 wrote: post #33

ksk wrote: post #27

I worry they're going to come after us programmers next. Only "authorized" programmers will get the access code required to change anything. Microsoft, Apple, Dell, etc will control the access codes. "Programming is hard, and these untrained self-taught programmers can mess up your machine, they might install malware, or they might be hackers, or they might overclock your CPU and damage it, or they might use the syst…

Isn't this exactly how iOS works currently? You literally cannot develop for it without signing an Apple contract (even non-App store apps require a user account/agreement).

Technically that's just them locking you out of their distribution platform, I don't think they'd have a legal case against you though. People sell apps outside of the app store and haven't suffered any recourse from apple, at least not that I know of.

EDIT: I guess you do have to technically agree to their terms to use the SDK and such, but if one were to get a hacked copy or whatever I think it'd be legal. They can definitely make it very hard to dodge their terms though.