Road safety tips from Sweden • Hacker News Board

Re: Road safety tips from Sweden

#71

Post by berg01 » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 5:09 PM UTC

distances wrote: post #19

icc97 wrote: post #5

90% of the article is about forward/backward facing child seats. But also the article spells out the the paper it was based on falsely claimed there was a significant difference between them and was retracted, restudied and agreed to not be statistically significant. Then it goes on to say, that Sweden does use rear-facing seats as though that somehow proves that there is a statistical significance. Seems like the ar…

> Because accidents are inevitable, Swedish regulations aim to make them nonlethal. I sometimes wonder how it would be possible to just adopt new laws and regulations wholesale from countries that have aimed to do a thing well, and succeeded. I know countries take ideas from each other, but it always seems to be small things and adapted with local modifications. Laws are obviously not for "move fast and break things"…

Kind of related:

There's a small Swedish state-owned (soon to be privatized though) consulting company with about 15 people that exists with the sole purpose of exporting this know-how to other countries. It's been relatively successful in selected developing countries. The know-how is typically given away for free, only actual work (training etc) is charged for.

http://www.sweroad.se/

They haven't been hugely successful though. I hear there's often way too much national pride and similar factors ("our country is unique because irrelevant factors X, Y and Z") involved.

These people have an odd mix of

a) satisfaction because they are helping people not get... killed or maimed

b) but also an extreme amount of banging your head against the wall kind of moments

Anyway, if you want to implement road safety quickly in your country, they are who you should go to.

Re: Road safety tips from Sweden

#72

Post by isostatic » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 5:11 PM UTC

megaman22 wrote: post #67

jakeogh wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm trying to not pick one thing and run with it, so I'll kinda ignore the miles without sidewalks thing, so consider bike lanes, if it's rural, why bother? Bike lanes make sense (kinda) in a high car density only. Have you considered that some people deliberately don't live in cities structured around that because they consider not using (or paying for the infrastructure of) public transit a good thing?

Yikes, you wouldn't catch me on a bike on most roads in any of the rural areas that I've ever lived in (northeast). Good way to get creamed by a pulp truck - maybe 25% of roads have a paved shoulder, and those that do are typically high-speed (55mph), high-traffic routes.

Why is it culturally acceptable to murder people in the US?

Re: Road safety tips from Sweden

#73

Post by VeejayRampay » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 5:11 PM UTC

bartkappenburg wrote: post #2

Here's a map that shows how many deaths in traffic are occuring per 1 million inhabitants in europe: https://etsc.eu/wp-content/uploads/map_twitter.png

Note that any stats about France should mention that French roads are some of the busiest in Europe, because we're at the crossroads of everything (lots of truck traffic coming from Germany / Portugal / Spain / Italy / The Netherlands on the highways for example).

Re: Road safety tips from Sweden

#74

Post by CalRobert » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 5:11 PM UTC

jakeogh wrote: post #49

abelsson wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having spent quite a bit of time in the US, I've noticed that getting somewhere there takes about the same amount time as home (which happens to be Sweden, hence me clicking the link). As an anecdotal example, some common times for me were about as follows: Going to work, 15 minutes. Grocery store, 5 minutes. Larger shopping mall, 30 minutes. The difference is that in the US that time is spent driving, while home it'…

I can get anywhere in my local city in the time it takes me to jump in my car and drive there. Comparing that with walking to a bus stop and waiting for it to get near my destination is not even remotely close, _and I wouldn't want to even if it was faster_. Talking about speed (while important) ignores the ability to instantly change your plan. Your experience might work in a closely spaced situation (hence your odd…

Country size has nothing to do with it. Tearing down downtowns to put in parking lots, forcing buildings to be surrounded by seas of asphalt, and density restrictions could be related.

Also it should be mentioned that your driving makes the city less pleasant and more dangerous to walk or cycle in, encouraging others to drive, in an unfortunate feedback loop.

Re: Road safety tips from Sweden

#75

Post by icc97 » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 5:13 PM UTC

yoda222 wrote: post #41

icc97 wrote: post #5

90% of the article is about forward/backward facing child seats. But also the article spells out the the paper it was based on falsely claimed there was a significant difference between them and was retracted, restudied and agreed to not be statistically significant. Then it goes on to say, that Sweden does use rear-facing seats as though that somehow proves that there is a statistical significance. Seems like the ar…

> Then it goes on to say, that Sweden does use rear-facing seats as though that somehow proves that there is a statistical significance The studies you are referring to (the retracted and the non conclusive one) are two studies based on past data on real road. They did compare existing numbers and yes, there was no statistical significance due to the reduced sample (according to the article, I didn't check personnaly…

Yeah, you're quite right. Should have read closer, I had read all the way through as they finished again talking about child seats.

In my (rather weak) defence, they have conflicting evidence over child seats, so it still seems incorrect to focus on that one aspect.

Re: Road safety tips from Sweden

#76

Post by gknoy » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 5:14 PM UTC

alkonaut wrote: post #11

Pushing a big 3.5yo into a rear facing seat is hard, even in Sweden, and I doubt it's very common to keep kids rear facing up to 4 here. We do listen to authorities but it's nearly physically impossible after they reach a certain length. I believe most start using front facing seats some time between ages 3 and 4 depending on size. One problem with rear facing seats and large children is that it requires a LOT of spa…

My kids did rear facing until they were about 5, and we have a car that, while not tiny, is relatively small (crossover hatchback). Yes, their legs were a little cramped, but the significant safety differences (in case of an accident) made it pretty compelling.

The rear-facing laws in California define the _minimums_ (weight, age, and I think also height?) for when you're _allowed_ to let your child face forward. Given the difference in fatality rates between the two, I was OK with going past the minimum time.

Re: Road safety tips from Sweden

#77

Post by checkyoursudo » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 5:19 PM UTC

lemming wrote: post #6

Our 4 year old daughter uses a Swedish rear-facing car seat, and she seems fine with it. I'm sure she would prefer a front facing one because she'd be able to see more, but since she was 3 she's been able to see pretty well. It's definitely not uncomfortably small for her. A woman asked a friend of ours "how do you get your kid to eat brown bread?" and our friend replied "she doesn't know there's any other kind". I t…

That's how my kids eat brown bread (whole wheat bread). I don't know whether they know about white bread, but they certainly don't have access to it at home.

They either eat whole wheat bread or they don't eat bread, and I don't care either way. I make really good sandwiches. If they want one, then they can have one. :)

Re: Road safety tips from Sweden

#78

Post by bryanlarsen » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 5:24 PM UTC

aesclepius wrote: post #62

JetSetWilly wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a bit worrying, there's no real evidence that rear facing seats improve outcomes for children, and similarly there's no real evidence that bicycle helmets improve outcomes for people in bicycle accidents. But somehow, the "safety industry" has leapt on these things and now everybody has a ludicrously fearful attitude to cycling and you get looked at funny (or even harassed by strangers) if you dare to let your…

While I don't know about rear-facing seats for outcomes, having cycled recreationally and for commute for the last 10 years, wearing a helmet has on multiple occasions saved me (yes I understand anecdata of 1) from mild lacerations to letting me walk away from a 40 mile downhill crash with road rash. Cycling without a helmet is a personal decision, but I don't understand how you can argue that increased head protecti…

There are three major factors:

- Cycling accidents under 20mph are highly unlikely to cause head injuries, and most cycling is done under 20mph so there's little room for improvement.

- Helmets are not designed to protect against the kind of injuries received in an accident with a car.

- Perhaps most importantly, the phenomenon called risk normalization. Cyclists wearing helmets take more risks than cyclists who don't, and cars interacting with cyclists give more space to cyclists who aren't wearing helmets.

Re: Road safety tips from Sweden

#79

Post by kilotaras » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 5:29 PM UTC

berg01 wrote: post #71

distances wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because accidents are inevitable, Swedish regulations aim to make them nonlethal. I sometimes wonder how it would be possible to just adopt new laws and regulations wholesale from countries that have aimed to do a thing well, and succeeded. I know countries take ideas from each other, but it always seems to be small things and adapted with local modifications. Laws are obviously not for "move fast and break things"…

Kind of related: There's a small Swedish state-owned (soon to be privatized though) consulting company with about 15 people that exists with the sole purpose of exporting this know-how to other countries. It's been relatively successful in selected developing countries. The know-how is typically given away for free, only actual work (training etc) is charged for. http://www.sweroad.se/ They haven't been hugely succes…

Person from (semi)developing country here (Ukraine).

Car is often seen as status symbol due to Soviet baggage. This leads to disregard of some traffic laws that are about "lesser status" pedestrians, e.g. speed limits, sidewalks parking, etc. The trend is slowly changing though with traffic calming measures becoming more common. This leads to a good number of accidents with drivers who can't ignore laws of physics as easily as traffic laws[1][2] though.

[1] https://www.facebook.com/comfycity.lviv/videos/vb.6665275535... (sorry for FB videos)

[2] https://www.facebook.com/comfycity.lviv/videos/vb.6665275535...

Re: Road safety tips from Sweden

#80

Post by tboughen » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 5:31 PM UTC

alkonaut wrote: post #11

Pushing a big 3.5yo into a rear facing seat is hard, even in Sweden, and I doubt it's very common to keep kids rear facing up to 4 here. We do listen to authorities but it's nearly physically impossible after they reach a certain length. I believe most start using front facing seats some time between ages 3 and 4 depending on size. One problem with rear facing seats and large children is that it requires a LOT of spa…

I’m in the UK - We have a 2 year old and a 4.5 year old both in rear facing Swedish car seats. It was cramped in the front of my old Kia Ceed, so we replaced it with a Honda CRV, which is on the the large end of mid sized SUVs. We carted the car seats into several other cars until we found one we liked where the car seats fit. Andcdotally I have seen middle income parents almost exclusively go for SUV’s or MPVs rather than hatchbacks or estates.