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Goldman Sachs questions whether curing patients is a sustainable business model

arstechnica.com

261–270 of 376 posts

Re: Goldman Sachs questions whether curing patients is a sustainable business model

#261
post #54

The 'ideal' drug from a business point of view not only not cures the patient long term, it offer a short term mitigation while increasing the risk on relapse and thus future recurring consumption of the treatment. At the same time it can be IP protected to block alternatives and has an insured third party collective payment coverage to guard against the treated running out of funds to afford the perpetual dependency…

So we agree medicine cannot be managed as a business, right? It's ok if healthcare losses money, in fact it should be ok for all public sevices to operate and not being profitable.

> So we agree medicine cannot be managed as a business, right?

No, we don't all agree with this. In a well-regulated and competitive market, businesses can opine about their fantasy product and scheme about how to extract maximum revenue from their customers all day, but if they push the envelope too far, a competitor will emerge and undercut them or offer a better product.

The issue is that the pharmaceutical industry isn't regulated in a manner that promotes competition. It's a heavily concentrated industry dominated by just a few multinational companies, most of which originated in the United States.

Like a growing number of industries in the US and elsewhere it is regulated in a manner which preserves the dominance of a few powerful firms and creates barriers to entry for competitors.

The behavior of these firms naturally shifts toward milking their customers as hard as they can because governments have granted them big moats. They pay the politicians, the politicians protect them, and we get another example of late stage capitalism, which isn't really capitalism at all.

Many Americans seem to harbor a curious cognitive dissonance: they don't trust their government, but they believe that more regulation of these already heavily regulated industries, devised by the government they mistrust, will fix the problem.

Re: Goldman Sachs questions whether curing patients is a sustainable business model

#262
post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is that shareholders lose something (the value of their shares) when they drain a company of its assets. This might still be short-sighted, but there is at least a balancing force. In public services, where making a loss is o.k. this is just included in the loss, and there is essentially nothing that encourages the 'parasite' to not drain the system.

Well, even that no longer seems to be assured. Plenty of ways to strip a company and make a profit in the short term, destroying the company in the long term.

E.g. Toys R Us. It was bought then saddled with debt by the new investors, and is now dead.

Re: Goldman Sachs questions whether curing patients is a sustainable business model

#263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well it's essentially eat right, drink water, get some rest, etc. This is just healthy living. I don’t think we should ascribe it to Traditional Chinese Medicine.

You'd be surprise how much common sense people pay to hear in some different form and name. Yin/yang, ayurveda, etc. We love creating symbolism for things grandma said to their children for 1000 years. Beside, most reason to go to the doctor go away if you have a healthy life style.

Everything developed before science is suspected to be bunk.

Everything developed after science is suspected to be bunk until the experiment has been replicated.

Re: Goldman Sachs questions whether curing patients is a sustainable business model

#264
post #244

The 'ideal' drug from a business point of view not only not cures the patient long term, it offer a short term mitigation while increasing the risk on relapse and thus future recurring consumption of the treatment. At the same time it can be IP protected to block alternatives and has an insured third party collective payment coverage to guard against the treated running out of funds to afford the perpetual dependency…

So, the ideal drug from a business point of view is heroin?

Or oxycodone.

Re: Goldman Sachs questions whether curing patients is a sustainable business model

#265

The 'ideal' drug from a business point of view not only not cures the patient long term, it offer a short term mitigation while increasing the risk on relapse and thus future recurring consumption of the treatment. At the same time it can be IP protected to block alternatives and has an insured third party collective payment coverage to guard against the treated running out of funds to afford the perpetual dependency…

Forbid pharmaceutical companies from going public, and give more government support to pharmaceutical companies in terms of liability from trials, etc. If the drug companies behaved more honorably, we could add more protections in case of genuine errors. But they are incentivized to maximize profit for their shareholders. Get rid of those incentives, and instead staff them with well-paid scientists or efficiently run private companies that are beholdened to the country.

Re: Goldman Sachs questions whether curing patients is a sustainable business model

#266
post #137

The health industry has no reason to cure patients. On the contrary, they have reasons to create new patients. And it's across the board. I tell myself exactly that when I look at my toothbrush. A toothbrush lasts about ~3 weeks before needing replacing. I'm sure someone in the industry will tell me that it's because it's made of unobtainium unicorn hair specially designed to make my teeth whiter and all that. I also…

> I also have a another plastic brush to clean my shotguns of all things (I do a lot of clay pigeon shooting) -- the construction is identical to a toothbrush, just perhaps a tad bigger. Is it, though? Are the bristles made of the same material, for example? I'm guessing that bristles tough enough to scrub metal would not be the best things to use on your teeth and gums.

Unless you like the taste of copper.

Re: Goldman Sachs questions whether curing patients is a sustainable business model

#267

The 'ideal' drug from a business point of view not only not cures the patient long term, it offer a short term mitigation while increasing the risk on relapse and thus future recurring consumption of the treatment. At the same time it can be IP protected to block alternatives and has an insured third party collective payment coverage to guard against the treated running out of funds to afford the perpetual dependency…

Suboxone fits this exactly.

Re: Goldman Sachs questions whether curing patients is a sustainable business model

#268
post #241

The health industry has no reason to cure patients. On the contrary, they have reasons to create new patients. And it's across the board. I tell myself exactly that when I look at my toothbrush. A toothbrush lasts about ~3 weeks before needing replacing. I'm sure someone in the industry will tell me that it's because it's made of unobtainium unicorn hair specially designed to make my teeth whiter and all that. I also…

The toothbrush is meant to remove a growing living substance, namely bacteria. The shotgun cleaner is meant to removal particles. After a period of time the toothbrush too will become a colony of bacteria. It will then add to the existing problem or at least offer no benefit. This is why you should change them so often. The shotgun cleaner is not used to remove bacteria primarily and will not suffer the same issue pr…

That's the standard reply. However, people with dentures don't change them every 3 weeks. There are perfectly sane way to disinfect/clean these sort of things on a long term basis. You could imagine leaving your brush in a cleaning solution.

Here they purposely make the brushes useless mechanically as the bristles deform to a point they are no longer usable.

Re: Goldman Sachs questions whether curing patients is a sustainable business model

#269

The 'ideal' drug from a business point of view not only not cures the patient long term, it offer a short term mitigation while increasing the risk on relapse and thus future recurring consumption of the treatment. At the same time it can be IP protected to block alternatives and has an insured third party collective payment coverage to guard against the treated running out of funds to afford the perpetual dependency…

>This realization goes beyond medicine, and is key to understanding why we live in an 'economy' that produces masses of landfill junk while our technology and manufacturing processes keep on improving.

This is the crux of the problem. The current system optimizes for things that are not improving people's lives. It optimizes for waste, unsustainable consumption of resources, wasteful competition rather than cooperation, self-prepetuating inequalities at small and large scale, hyper-optimized psychological manipulation (i.e. advertising) for raw amount of useless shit being sold, etc.

We didn't reach the pinnacle of perfection in systems of wealth distribution with 18th century capitalism. We can do better. We can do a lot better.

Re: Goldman Sachs questions whether curing patients is a sustainable business model

#270
post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

.. or a fifth of the military budget. "It's not practical of the US to maintain the most expensive military in the world, it's simply too expensive" said nobody in Congress ever.

Thats a false comparison. It's like saying "people spend $1,000 on iPhones. Why wouldn't they spend $1,000 on a pizza?" Ability to pay and willingness to pay are very different concepts

> Thats a false comparison.

All your argument was that it's too expensive. Clearly it's not. If the manner in which the money is spent (or the feelings we'll have while sending it) is actually the limiting factor, you'll need to actually make that argument.

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