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Duolingo Suddenly Has Over Twice as Much Language Learning Material

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Re: Duolingo Suddenly Has Over Twice as Much Language Learning Material

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you check if other language learning apps were wrong as well?

Why would this matter, at all?

It would matter to those of us trying to learn a language, because if another app was better, we could use it instead of duolingo.

At the moment I'm supplementing duolingo by nattering away to my father in French and asking the half-French guy at work how to say various things, but if the app is teaching me things that are plain wrong, I'll have to either find another app or start taking real life classes, which is why it would be useful to know what else is broken.

Re: Duolingo Suddenly Has Over Twice as Much Language Learning Material

#132
It's interesting to see how many people don't find Duolingo or other apps to be effective learning tools. I spent the last 2 years creating a Thai learning app (that I think of as a 'digital textbook') specifically to address the issues that many people here raise. I won't cite the name since I'm not trying to advertise, just bringing it up as a talking point.

Duolingo does lots of AB testing and found that gamification greatly increased user engagement, but I think that they took it too far and lost the forest in the trees.

Everyone learns differently but in my experience you need to hear or read explanations of the second language in your native tongue and then hear that construction in the second language to reinforce it, because the key is lots of comprehensible input.

Can a complex sentence become comprehensible input with just games? Sure, but if someone can explain how the grammar works in English then you can get to that same point faster and without the guess work. That's my opinion, at least, and so far users are seeming to find it effective since reviews have been largely positive!

I think that serious language students will seek out appropriate apps or textbooks, and Duolingo will be a fun option for people that want a mixture of cognitive exercise and entertainment that may also be useful when they're traveling or interacting in a foreign language.

Re: Duolingo Suddenly Has Over Twice as Much Language Learning Material

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. I speak Portuguese fluently as a second language, and wanted to see what the Duolingo material was like. First warning sign: I couldn't pass the test to study intermediate content, because a significant proportion of the multiple-choice answers were just wrong . Then, looking at the beginner content, a shocking number of answers were wrong as well. It was kind of funny, since each piece of material had user c…

I'm a Turkish native speaker and I couldn't pass their intermediate Turkish material as well. EDIT: Also it felt like the whole game was written from an "Indo-European" perspective. For example, in Turkish there is a word "bir" (read [biɾ]) which literally means "one" which is sometimes used akin to indefinite articles (a/an). But they're not exactly indefinite articles, and sentence usually makes sense without them…

Articles are more of a regional feature, that is restricted to just a subset of indoeuropean languages. Articles work quite differently in Romance languages than in Germanic languages and even there are outliers like Icelandic which does not use indefinite articles.

In my opinion you could go even further an say that they have an English bias.

Re: Duolingo Suddenly Has Over Twice as Much Language Learning Material

#135

has anyone had success with any of these language-learning apps, even as supplemental material to a more traditional education? I've tried to use Duolingo for Japanese, with very little success on its own. Paired with my own studying, it was only a bit more helpful, but not more helpful than flashcards. Another app, LingoDeer, was better, because it had a curriculum and more unified lessons, and I could swap between…

I've used Duolingo French mostly daily since last August, along with reading children's books of gradually increasing difficulty. (I'm into the first Harry Potter book at this point.) I think I could've learned substantially more efficiently than with Duolingo, if I could've focused on it as a top goal, but it worked well enough as a way of turning time when feeling tired with no initiative into learning time. You ju…

> Conversations out loud might be a different story.

This is the biggest limitation of duolingo. In most languages, reading is the easiest in the reading/ writing/ listening/ speaking hierarchy[1] - a good way to learn vocab, but learning to cope with the sound of the language at full speed is generally where the biggest challenge lies. I would seriously recommend listening to language learning podcasts over duolingo once you get past a beginner level.

Source : am also an intermediate French learner. French people talk fast.

[1] ... but writing correctly in French is freaking hard as European languages go, because of the spelling rules...

Re: Duolingo Suddenly Has Over Twice as Much Language Learning Material

#136

It's interesting to see how many people don't find Duolingo or other apps to be effective learning tools. I spent the last 2 years creating a Thai learning app (that I think of as a 'digital textbook') specifically to address the issues that many people here raise. I won't cite the name since I'm not trying to advertise, just bringing it up as a talking point. Duolingo does lots of AB testing and found that gamificat…

ctrl+f "Thai". Since Duolingo doesn't have a Thai module, would you mind sharing your app?

Re: Duolingo Suddenly Has Over Twice as Much Language Learning Material

#137

I did Duolingo seriously for more than 370 days in a row. Spanish: I speak french and English so Spanish is relatively easy to complete. After completing the course, I tried having conversations with people (with friends but mostly uber drivers) and I was surprised how many times i learned it all wrong. I had to read a lot or children book to remedy that. French: As a french speaker, I went through it as a meta cours…

Did it, at least, improved your vocabulary?

Re: Duolingo Suddenly Has Over Twice as Much Language Learning Material

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. I speak Portuguese fluently as a second language, and wanted to see what the Duolingo material was like. First warning sign: I couldn't pass the test to study intermediate content, because a significant proportion of the multiple-choice answers were just wrong . Then, looking at the beginner content, a shocking number of answers were wrong as well. It was kind of funny, since each piece of material had user c…

I'm a Turkish native speaker and I couldn't pass their intermediate Turkish material as well. EDIT: Also it felt like the whole game was written from an "Indo-European" perspective. For example, in Turkish there is a word "bir" (read [biɾ]) which literally means "one" which is sometimes used akin to indefinite articles (a/an). But they're not exactly indefinite articles, and sentence usually makes sense without them…

It's not even just "indo-european" bias, it's just that word-for-word translation of sentences without any context only gets you so far. Even for something as "simple" as English-to-French it breaks down when the languages don't map 1:1 with each other.

For instance there's no single way to translate "I ran" in French, it could be "j'ai courru" or "je courrais" depending on context and depending no the lesson Duolingo will favor one or the other, leading English speakers to write puzzled comments like "I thought the imperfect was 'I used to run' or 'I was running', why is it 'I ran' here?" And the answer is "it's more complicated than that, but Duolingo won't teach you that".

Re: Duolingo Suddenly Has Over Twice as Much Language Learning Material

#139

The biggest issue I have with Duolingo is that they offer "grammar notes" to explain why specific elements are the way they are... but only on desktop web. In-app, which is the main way that I (and I'd imagine most users) use Duolingo, there are no grammar notes and no way to access the grammar notes - they just seem to assume that you'll pick it up from context. Personally I've been studying Russian, a language with…

Yeah it makes no sense, a read more button that sends you to a screen that is basically just a text box with the notes would be enough. It has been requested for years on their forums.

Re: Duolingo Suddenly Has Over Twice as Much Language Learning Material

#140
Does anyone have any experience with the Fluent Forever approach? Their Kickstarter campaign received more than twice the amount requested[0]. Their book is currently selling for $2 on Amazon[1], and has some glowing reviews.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15498952 [1] https://www.amazon.com/Fluent-Forever-Learn-Language-Forget-...

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