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Duolingo Suddenly Has Over Twice as Much Language Learning Material

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Re: Duolingo Suddenly Has Over Twice as Much Language Learning Material

#101
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...trying to cram their prepackaged square-shaped tools into a variety of circle-shaped holes. All languages are different and each requires a different approach. The first half of this is dead on. The second half is wrong. Duolingo's top languages are in the Indo-European family. (Their most learned language is English, next is Spanish.) Their techniques are perfectly adequate for gaining elementary vocabulary a bas…

No, languages are indeed different. Providing elementary grammar or vocabulary is next to useless in real conversation with natives. I highly doubt anyone is SOLELY learning English or Spanish through Duolingo. It's important to look at resources that languages provide- English and Spanish also have immense amounts of media to listen to and read, and obviously a lot of people to talk with. I would say that helps far…

I'm not sure what point you think you are responding to.

My point is that a particular approach tends to work similarly well across many languages within a language family. Duolingo's method is effective at providing elementary grammar and vocabulary within Indo-European languages. I agree that it does not get you a sufficient vocabulary to read, or the verbal reflexes for speech. But it is an effective approach for an absolute beginner.

Everything that I've heard about it says that it is basically useless for various Asian languages. Even for absolute beginners. For example my wife used Duolingo with languages like Polish and Spanish. She was quite happy with the results, even though she outgrew what the app can do. However despite these good experiences it took her less than a week to decide that it was useless for Japanese, and move on to a random flashcard program instead.

As an interesting aside, we have objective evidence of these linguistic differences from machine learning. Google Translate originally worked by a form of statistical pattern matching across large numbers of original and translated documents. This worked brilliantly for Indo-European languages, but did badly for various Asian languages. To my understanding for much the same fundamental reasons that Duolingo does.

Re: Duolingo Suddenly Has Over Twice as Much Language Learning Material

#102
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once you have the basics down, I like anki or memrise better for picking up vocab. You can do decks based on JLPT levels or do Core 2k/6k. Here's the memrise course series I am using (6000 words broken up into chunks of 500, frequency optimized): https://www.memrise.com/course/1091685/sgjl-05-core-2k6k-voc... (first of 500 of 6000) https://www.memrise.com/course/1125407/sgjl-07-core-2k6k-voc... (next 500 words) https…

Nice resources. I should probably elaborate on my actual study methods: - Vocabulary study with Anki - Kanji study (RTK order) with a script that shows vocab on my desktop - Grammar study via Tae Kim - Listening practice with regular consumption of Japanese music & television - Reading/writing practice by engaging in Japanese discussions on Mastodon, IRC, 2channel - Reading practice with Japanese manga and novels - R…

Can you share how you're showing the vocab on the desktop? That would be a neat study tool.

Re: Duolingo Suddenly Has Over Twice as Much Language Learning Material

#103
post #61

I did Duolingo seriously for more than 370 days in a row. Spanish: I speak french and English so Spanish is relatively easy to complete. After completing the course, I tried having conversations with people (with friends but mostly uber drivers) and I was surprised how many times i learned it all wrong. I had to read a lot or children book to remedy that. French: As a french speaker, I went through it as a meta cours…

> But after completing the entire suite, I still can't look at a japanese text and read it. Well, if you're coming from a European language background, Japanese is one of the hardest languages to benchmark on. I mean, there's three writing systems (hiragana, katakana, kanji) for starters! And then unlike European languages, it's not alphabetical and kanji is not even really syllabic - which means, the background you…

It's true that Japanese is harder to learn. However, the Duolingo course is particularly awful. Even with some prior knowledge I was completely lost with much of the stuff they randomly throw at you without any explanation.

Re: Duolingo Suddenly Has Over Twice as Much Language Learning Material

#104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't understand that-- compared to the cost of developing and marketing the app itself, surely the cost to hire someone whose only qualification is that they be bilingual is trivial, and you would only need them for long enough for them to run through all the questions to double check they are correct.

That‘s probably what they thought, too. If you just pick a random bilingual person and let them proofread your learning material you are going to end up with crappy learning materials. If you want good content, you need good editors, and they are neither cheap, nor easy to find. The reason why companies try to save money with editors is that they don‘t „scale“ (one dev and a designer can program an interface that can…

It's not hard to hire someone to notice that the comments are reporting errors.

Re: Duolingo Suddenly Has Over Twice as Much Language Learning Material

#105
Nifty.

I've been able to use Duolingo to bootstrap my way into being able to sort of read French. It's also decent at drills in German, a language I took in college.

I really like Duolingo for drills and for getting a sort of 101-level language map. A lot of the early sentences are absurdly inane, to be honest, but they are useful in the drill sense.

That said, I took a run at Chinese, a language which I see as something potentially really useful, and it was a complete non-starter.

Re: Duolingo Suddenly Has Over Twice as Much Language Learning Material

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been on duolingo since the beginning and am sure that I've spent more time with the site and app than 95% of the userbase. I've learned languages with duolingo.. and by that I don't mean duolingo will teach you a language. There's two things that I feel that almost everyone misses. #1: Using duolingo alone will get you to about an A2-B1 level in comprehension and an A1-A2 level in writing and speaking. This is j…

No way will Duo Lingo get you anywhere close to A2 for writing or speaking. MAYBE A1 if you try hard at it for a long long time in a language it well supports. To get to A2 you need a real tutor and real communication experience. I used Verbling to find a tutor and I traveled to Eastern Europe over the summer to practice and only after hundreds of hours of practice was I able to communicate in Russian to any degree e…

Isn't Russian one of the hardest languages to learn if you don't already know a slavic language?

Re: Duolingo Suddenly Has Over Twice as Much Language Learning Material

#107
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice resources. I should probably elaborate on my actual study methods: - Vocabulary study with Anki - Kanji study (RTK order) with a script that shows vocab on my desktop - Grammar study via Tae Kim - Listening practice with regular consumption of Japanese music & television - Reading/writing practice by engaging in Japanese discussions on Mastodon, IRC, 2channel - Reading practice with Japanese manga and novels - R…

Can you share how you're showing the vocab on the desktop? That would be a neat study tool.

Try the rikaikun chrome extension?

Re: Duolingo Suddenly Has Over Twice as Much Language Learning Material

#108

I did Duolingo seriously for more than 370 days in a row. Spanish: I speak french and English so Spanish is relatively easy to complete. After completing the course, I tried having conversations with people (with friends but mostly uber drivers) and I was surprised how many times i learned it all wrong. I had to read a lot or children book to remedy that. French: As a french speaker, I went through it as a meta cours…

Agreed. I speak Portuguese fluently as a second language, and wanted to see what the Duolingo material was like. First warning sign: I couldn't pass the test to study intermediate content, because a significant proportion of the multiple-choice answers were just wrong . Then, looking at the beginner content, a shocking number of answers were wrong as well. It was kind of funny, since each piece of material had user c…

I heard Portuguese from South America and from Portugal are different - maybe that could be a reason?

Re: Duolingo Suddenly Has Over Twice as Much Language Learning Material

#109
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice resources. I should probably elaborate on my actual study methods: - Vocabulary study with Anki - Kanji study (RTK order) with a script that shows vocab on my desktop - Grammar study via Tae Kim - Listening practice with regular consumption of Japanese music & television - Reading/writing practice by engaging in Japanese discussions on Mastodon, IRC, 2channel - Reading practice with Japanese manga and novels - R…

Can you share how you're showing the vocab on the desktop? That would be a neat study tool.

https://git.sr.ht/~sircmpwn/dotfiles/tree/lib/python3/kotd

Warning: this is a mess

Re: Duolingo Suddenly Has Over Twice as Much Language Learning Material

#110

I did Duolingo seriously for more than 370 days in a row. Spanish: I speak french and English so Spanish is relatively easy to complete. After completing the course, I tried having conversations with people (with friends but mostly uber drivers) and I was surprised how many times i learned it all wrong. I had to read a lot or children book to remedy that. French: As a french speaker, I went through it as a meta cours…

I’m trying to learn Japanese and 99% of the apps out there focus on memorizing phrases out of context that could be applied to any topic, and market itself as a language learning system.

I’ve yet to find a single app that beat out a one-time read through of a Japanese grammar guide.

That being said memorization apps can be useful, such as for vocabulary, but I’ve yet to find an app that markets itself as that.

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